Lets talk about roller cams for stroked big blocks!

[andyf]

Good point, Fish. That is why I asked the man at Lunati Cams about valve lash. He said that the lobes are designed with ramps of various rates. If the lash is tighter than ideal, the edges of the lifters want to dig into the lobes!
WHAT ???
Since I know a little but not a LOT, I took him at his word and stayed with the spec that was called for on the cam card.
I'm not disappointed in the performance as it is now. I did lose some punch when I went from the 3.91 gear to the 3.55 but I expected that. I made that gear swap because when I had the 3.91, I also had a Gear Vendors unit in the car. When I sold the Gear Vendors, I switched to the 3.55 just to make freeway driving tolerable.
I will be switching to some shorter tires that will have the effect of a deeper axle gear. The 5 speed will stir things up as well, since it has a 2.87 1st gear ratio compared to the TF 727 2.45.
Finally, I did not expect to see the lifters cost so much! In 2013 when I was considering the same thing, I thought I saw Hughes or Comp lifters for under $500. I figured I could do this for under $1200 total. Not that money is everything but jeez...

You'll get more return on the investment by switching to EFI than changing to a roller cam. A Holley Sniper setup with the Hyperspark distributor will give you computer controlled fuel and spark plus data logging. The 528 cam is a pretty good compromise for your type of engine so you aren't going to notice a huge improvement on the street with roller cam. You should notice a pretty big improvement though from a tuned EFI conversion. The investment would be about the same for either one.

 

[Kern Dog]

Well.....
I am reviving an old thread for a GOOD reason. The 528 cam lost a few lobes and will have to be replaced.
The lash grew recently. It was running a bit rough and knocking on acceleration. It hasn't detonated hardly at all since lowering the compression a few years back. There was some increased clatter so today I lashed the valves. #3 and #4 intake rockers were loose enough to worry me but I relashed them along with all the others. I started it up and while it was quieter than before, it was still noisier than usual.
I went for a drive and power was down. It didn't run terrible but it wasn't tip-top.
I pulled the intake and valley pan to see at least 3 lobes going bad.
This thread was originally started to see about roller cam options for Big Blocks.
I am still considering this.
If the rod and main bearings look clean, what are the risks of just douching out the lifter valley, replacing the oil pump and putting in another cam?
I have a Lunati solid that was a great performer but I'm still curious about the reliability of a roller cam.

 

[gkent]

Is this a dual sync distributor?

Holley Sniper 565-306BK​

 

[biomedtechguy]

Well.....
I am reviving an old thread for a GOOD reason. The 528 cam lost a few lobes and will have to be replaced.
The lash grew recently. It was running a bit rough and knocking on acceleration. It hasn't detonated hardly at all since lowering the compression a few years back. There was some increased clatter so today I lashed the valves. #3 and #4 intake rockers were loose enough to worry me but I relashed them along with all the others. I started it up and while it was quieter than before, it was still noisier than usual.
I went for a drive and power was down. It didn't run terrible but it wasn't tip-top.
I pulled the intake and valley pan to see at least 3 lobes going bad.
This thread was originally started to see about roller cam options for Big Blocks.
I am still considering this.
If the rod and main bearings look clean, what are the risks of just douching out the lifter valley, replacing the oil pump and putting in another cam?
I have a Lunati solid that was a great performer but I'm still curious about the reliability of a roller cam.

The only thing I can say is that in the process of planning and paying for parts for my 572 stroker I have a multi page thread on my choosing the kind of lifters to run.
I'm thinking 80% street, 20% strip use. I was mainly guided by an "Obi-Wan Kenobi like" voice in my head that said over and over "I don't run hydraulic roller lifters anymore because of failure experience" and the "engine Jedi" who said that is our dear @IQ52 .
"Jim Laroy said ____" should be enough, but after much discussion, and a strong desire to use solid flat tappet lifters, and the fact that the hydraulic roller setup in my wife's Pontiac 428 Tripower hasn't given us any trouble, for my application my builder and I decided to use EDM design (extra oiling) solid roller lifters (bushed roller, not needle bearings) and cam. FWIW.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I use comp 848 solid roller lifters and drive 1500 to 2000 miles a year on the street.When biz is good I get to the track 4 or 5 times in a season. Send them out every 5 or 6 years to be rebuilt.

https://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/848-2/10002/-1

 

[RemCharger]

If you're keeping the rpm down, (6000), then you can use a better midrange cam, and it wouldn't need as much spring pressure, thus making the rollers last longer, while making more low down torque because it's a roller.
Just some thoughts.
Now which ones will last is out of my jurisdiction

 

[biomedtechguy]

I use comp 848 solid roller lifters and drive 1500 to 2000 miles a year on the street.When biz is good I get to the track 4 or 5 times in a season. Send them out every 5 or 6 years to be rebuilt.

https://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/848-2/10002/-1

View attachment 1292797

View attachment 1292798

You and your whole setup are a true inspiration my friend! How much more BADASS can an American muscle car get than to have a supercharged HEMI under the hood?!
It's performance on the track, and it's apparent driveability on the street, are truly inspirational, and if someone asked me for an example of one of the ultimate all around examples of a muscle car, I'd point right at your ride!

 

[Kern Dog]

I'm going to have to make a call to Dwayne Porter.
I used to have his number but I can't seem to find it. Years ago when I was dealing with detonation, he chatted on and on for awhile. I was surprised that he was willing to spend so much time when I wasn't ready to buy anything from him.
I'm committed to going with a roller setup. I know that there will be a few additional changes that have to be done. I am new to this but I thought I'd need a bronze distributor drive, right? What about the fuel pump pushrod? I've read that I'll need some sort of way to keep the cam from "walking" forward. Why doesn't the distributor drive prevent that?
This engine has always used a bit of oil. some must burn a bit but the oil never stays clean for very long. There are a few small leaks too.
No matter what I do, I have some seepage at the oil pan rail. The RH valve cover often drips a little at the rear, right over the header.
I would LOVE to seal the engine up better.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I'm going to have to make a call to Dwayne Porter.
I used to have his number but I can't seem to find it. Years ago when I was dealing with detonation, he chatted on and on for awhile. I was surprised that he was willing to spend so much time when I wasn't ready to buy anything from him.
I'm committed to going with a roller setup. I know that there will be a few additional changes that have to be done. I am new to this but I thought I'd need a bronze distributor drive, right? What about the fuel pump pushrod? I've read that I'll need some sort of way to keep the cam from "walking" forward. Why doesn't the distributor drive prevent that?
This engine has always used a bit of oil. some must burn a bit but the oil never stays clean for very long. There are a few small leaks too.
No matter what I do, I have some seepage at the oil pan rail. The RH valve cover often drips a little at the rear, right over the header.
I would LOVE to seal the engine up better.

Anyone with experience, if what I'm posting is wrong, please correct me.
*Bronze distributor drive because roller cams are billet steel, and one of the gears' teeth have to wear, so the distributor drive is easier to replace if the wear gets too excessive.
The timing chain cover has to have a button or "spot" that holds the cam in place. On Mopar, flat tappet cams have a slight taper and the lifters provide the gentle rearward force to keep it in place. Rollers don't exert that rearward force, thus something else has to be done.
I can't stand oil leaks but I've got at least one on my 440. Driver's side rear valve cover, but I believe it's a loose stud, so it should be fixable.
Oil drips make everything dirty, can interfere with troubleshooting, and usually make wrenching a worse experience.

 

[RemCharger]

Anyone with experience, if what I'm posting is wrong, please correct me.
*Bronze distributor drive because roller cams are billet steel, and one of the gears' teeth have to wear, so the distributor drive is easier to replace if the wear gets too excessive.
The timing chain cover has to have a button or "spot" that holds the cam in place. On Mopar, flat tappet cams have a slight taper and the lifters provide the gentle rearward force to keep it in place. Rollers don't exert that rearward force, thus something else has to be done.
I can't stand oil leaks but I've got at least one on my 440. Driver's side rear valve cover, but I believe it's a loose stud, so it should be fixable.
Oil drips make everything dirty, can interfere with troubleshooting, and usually make wrenching a worse experience.

Yes. The harder part is building the t chain cover to not flex. They bend quite easily.
A valvecover leak ... is a bit less complicated lol.
I would assume you're going with Andy's chain cover.

 

[Geoff 2]

Bronze not needed. I think Mancini & Hughes sell the Melonized steel drive.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I would assume you're going with Andy's chain cover.

That's a great reminder. I need those from time to time.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Here's a good article on the topic of cams and gear drives
https://www.streetmusclemag.com/features/twist-taking-confusion-distributor-gear-compatibility/

 

[Kern Dog]

Yes. The harder part is building the t chain cover to not flex. They bend quite easily.
A valvecover leak ... is a bit less complicated lol.
I would assume you're going with Andy's chain cover.

Hmmm?

Never heard of such a thing. I'll look into that. THANKS!

 

[biomedtechguy]

I would assume you're going with Andy's chain cover.

That's a great reminder. I need those from time to time.

I am going to have to ask what my experienced Mopar builder uses, out of curiosity, and compare if different, to what Andy F uses, because calling him "experienced" doesn't reach high enough.

Never heard of such a thing. I'll look into that. THANKS!

I don't know if you're kidding or serious.
Here's the link to the timing cover:
http://arengineering.com/products/timing-chain-cover/

 

[Kern Dog]

No, I did not know about that timing cover. Thank you.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I sometimes beef up the stock covers

 

[hunt2elk]

I'm going to have to make a call to Dwayne Porter.
I used to have his number but I can't seem to find it. Years ago when I was dealing with detonation, he chatted on and on for awhile. I was surprised that he was willing to spend so much time when I wasn't ready to buy anything from him.
I'm committed to going with a roller setup. I know that there will be a few additional changes that have to be done. I am new to this but I thought I'd need a bronze distributor drive, right? What about the fuel pump pushrod? I've read that I'll need some sort of way to keep the cam from "walking" forward. Why doesn't the distributor drive prevent that?
This engine has always used a bit of oil. some must burn a bit but the oil never stays clean for very long. There are a few small leaks too.
No matter what I do, I have some seepage at the oil pan rail. The RH valve cover often drips a little at the rear, right over the header.
I would LOVE to seal the engine up better.

Dwayne's # is 802-951-1955. The next time I need any motor related parts, I am buying from him, even if he is not the cheapest in town. He has went out of his way to pm and talk on the phone with me about a motor issue I was having. Great guy and a wealth of knowledge imo.

 

[biomedtechguy]

No, I did not know about that timing cover. Thank you.

I asked my builder what he does, but I haven't gotten a straight answer. I seriously doubt I'd have any advantage in a belt drive, or an adjustable keyway. It seems like AndyF's timing cover is very nice, but a good bit more features than I would use?? If y'all don't mind, I could use an explanation, and if there are other billet (sturdy, thick, not likely to leak) timing covers out there for half the cost of Andy's it may be worth the savings. OTOH, if someone can explain the advantages of ALL of what his timing cover offers, or if there aren't any other TCs that keep the cam clearance where it should be, then WTF are people doing if they don't use his??
Thanks

 

[Kern Dog]

I agree that the AR piece looks great. I also am not one that needs all of the benefits it offers.
I have seen pictures of modified stock covers. That requires some fabrication and welding experience. I'm a fair welder but not sure how to do this.