Progress. Updates. And questions.

[CoronetDarter]

however i was told that with 1.6 rocker ratios the spider may not work and it might be better to not use it.

any input would be helpful.

I'm not sure what "may not work" is referring to. Unless you're installing domed pistons, its not an issue.
I'm running 1.6s in my 408.

 

[RemCharger]

How a lifter locating device affected by rocker ratio?

 

[bm73charger]

I'm not sure what "may not work" is referring to. Unless you're installing domed pistons, its not an issue.
I'm running 1.6s in my 408.

well thats awsome to hear. so you have 1.6 rocker ratio and use the spider hold down? i wanted to use it because it seems useful.

 

[bm73charger]

How a lifter locating device affected by rocker ratio?

im unsure to be honest. this is the quote i was refering to.

"nice, if you are going to use the factory spider/roller setup you can't go over like .545 (1.5ratio) (i'm told) just fyi"

i took that to mean that if your using the spider hold down you cant go over 1.5. and as the only time ive referenced 1.5 is the rocker arm ratio i was unsure if that meant that because i had 1.6 ratio rocker arms i wouldn't be able to use the spider hold down.

 

[CoronetDarter]

well thats awsome to hear. so you have 1.6 rocker ratio and use the spider hold down? i wanted to use it because it seems useful.

Yep.

 

[CoronetDarter]

im unsure to be honest. this is the quote i was refering to.

"nice, if you are going to use the factory spider/roller setup you can't go over like .545 (1.5ratio) (i'm told) just fyi"

i took that to mean that if your using the spider hold down you cant go over 1.5. and as the only time ive referenced 1.5 is the rocker arm ratio i was unsure if that meant that because i had 1.6 ratio rocker arms i wouldn't be able to use the spider hold down.

I'm running a hyd roller cam; .576/.587 lift @ 1.6. Stock lifters, dog bones, spider.

 

[RemCharger]

im unsure to be honest. this is the quote i was refering to.

"nice, if you are going to use the factory spider/roller setup you can't go over like .545 (1.5ratio) (i'm told) just fyi"

i took that to mean that if your using the spider hold down you cant go over 1.5. and as the only time ive referenced 1.5 is the rocker arm ratio i was unsure if that meant that because i had 1.6 ratio rocker arms i wouldn't be able to use the spider hold down.

That quote is misleading. There is probably a limit to the lobe lift. Which is the lift of the cam.
The rocker ratio just amplifies the lift at the valve.

 

[4mulas]

I admire your wanting to build your own engine but I have to say you may want to pump the brakes a little bit here and really edjamucate yourself a little better here. There are alot of questions and a lot of ‘I didn’t know that’ or ‘I don’t know answers’ here. There’s is a lot to know and I think with what things cost a fly by the seat of your pants build might not be the best approach here. Hate to see you fire it up and have issue with something you thought you knew but turns out you didn’t.

Wish you the best of luck with the build!

 

[CoronetDarter]

If you haven't already, sign up to the FABO site. A bodies have a lot more content on the LA engine than the B body site. They have an entire forum strictly for the SBM.
Look up KrazyKuda on the site. He posted 20 or more articles on how to build a 360, starting from block prep all the way to installing the intake and carb. I referenced his articles continuously throughout my build, along with the book 'How To Build the Small Block Mopar', plus random threads along the way.

 

[coloradodave]

Smith Bros. Pushrods has a comprehensive catalog as well. You might want to check out page 2.

 

[bm73charger]

I admire your wanting to build your own engine but I have to say you may want to pump the brakes a little bit here and really edjamucate yourself a little better here. There are alot of questions and a lot of ‘I didn’t know that’ or ‘I don’t know answers’ here. There’s is a lot to know and I think with what things cost a fly by the seat of your pants build might not be the best approach here. Hate to see you fire it up and have issue with something you thought you knew but turns out you didn’t.

Wish you the best of luck with the build!

ive done lot of research. and purchased books. and watched videos. hours and hours and hours of research and questioning. to be fair ive never put an engine together before. and without actually doing it these are not questions id ask and be able to look for. since most of it is the little details that engine builders already know/ know to look out for because theyve been doing it for years. so how better to figure this stuff out then to do. if youve never seen something done before youd never know that you should have looked for this or that or done something a different way until its time to do it. the engine itself is more than halfway together already so were a little far passed waiting. im sure there will be more setbacks or issues. but since ive never done this before im not going to know until i get there and then ask for advice.

 

[bm73charger]

If you haven't already, sign up to the FABO site. A bodies have a lot more content on the LA engine than the B body site. They have an entire forum strictly for the SBM.
Look up KrazyKuda on the site. He posted 20 or more articles on how to build a 360, starting from block prep all the way to installing the intake and carb. I referenced his articles continuously throughout my build, along with the book 'How To Build the Small Block Mopar', plus random threads along the way.

ill have to check that out thank you. i also have the how to build a small block mopar book. pretty handy

 

[bm73charger]

Smith Bros. Pushrods has a comprehensive catalog as well. You might want to check out page 2.

will do thank you

 

[T Brashears]

I'd have left it in,never know what the future brings. Did you degree the cam?

 

[bm73charger]

Fair warning: I'm not an experienced engine builder. The 408 I recently finished was only my second build ever; the first was over 30 years ago. So my experience has been learned over the last 7 months. Having said that, I now have about 200 miles on the engine with no issues, no strange noises, 80 psi oil pressure at cold idle.
I see you installed adjustable rocker arms; are the adjusters cup or ball? It makes a difference when dialing in the final pushrod length.
Regardless of cup or ball, rotate the each rocker's adjustment screw until the adjuster bottoms out against the underside of the rocker. Then counter-rotate 360° to drop the adjuster down one or two threads from the rocker. This gives wiggle room for any final adjustments when installing the pushrods.
Pick a cylinder, doesn't matter which one but most people default to #1. The cam lobe has to be on the base circle. With the rocker arms cinched down (don't have to be fully torqued), increase the length of the checker pushrod until it won't rotate by rubbing one finger against it. Now its at zero preload. Continued lengthening of the checker rod will only increase lifter preload. Now add your preload to the pushrod length, typically 0.030" - 0.060". During my build I talked to Dave Hughes at Hughes Engines, and Mike Beachel at B3 Racing, and each said that choosing a preload number isn't critical. A tighter preload may be a little noisier at cold idle.
If the pushrod is ball end, you're done. Cup end is a little tricky because you have to subtract the depth of the cup from your total length. I used PRW rockers with cup adjusters (ball end pushrods) so I was done. Using calipers you can try to measure the diameter of the ball.

I measured both intake and exhaust for both #1 and #2 cylinders to get a comparison. Remember to rotate the engine for each measurement so that you're always on the base circle.
When you're done, call up Smith Bros. pushrods; they were very helpful when I ordered.

I used a paint daub to help count the revolutions. I also painted one surface of the hold down brackets because they're offset and I wanted to make sure they were reinstalled in the correct orientation.
View attachment 1886257

Do you happen to remember what size pushrod you ended up with on this build? if im measuring right mine is saying 6.56. but that seems a bit small so im wondering if i did something incorectly?

 

[CoronetDarter]

Do you happen to remember what size pushrod you ended up with on this build? if im measuring right mine is saying 6.56. but that seems a bit small so im wondering if i did something incorectly?

Mine are 7.300". Different heads can produce different pushrod lengths. The TF heads have higher rocker arm pedestals than stock heads.
Are you sure that you measured from the cam's base?

 

[bm73charger]

Mine are 7.300". Different heads can produce different pushrod lengths. The TF heads have higher rocker arm pedestals than stock heads.
Are you sure that you measured from the cam's base?

yes i measured from the base. ill have to remeasure again though. i didn't adjust the rockers correctly. that still seems awfully short though. i believe stock are 7.5. i just didn't imagine there would be that much of a difference.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Speedmaster/746/PCE281.2149/10002/-1
Above are the heads ive ordered
https://www.jegs.com/i/PRW/228/3231812/10002/-1
above are the rockers and shafts ive ordered.

 

[CoronetDarter]

Stock 360 is 7.5" so you're measurements are too short. Ballpark, the pushrod should be within 0.25" of stock. You're sure that the lifter is resting on the cam base. The rocker arm adjusters are only showing about 1 thread pitch out of the bottom of the rocker. Make sure the lifter end of the checking pushrod is seated in the cup of the lifter, not hanging up on the edge.

My checking rods spun way too easily; just removing them from the rocker/lifter the top part would rotate a bit. I wound up loosely wrapping blue tape where the two parts threaded together and after determining the length, I pressed the tape around the push rod to secure it before removing it from the engine.

 

[RemCharger]

yes i measured from the base. ill have to remeasure again though. i didn't adjust the rockers correctly. that still seems awfully short though. i believe stock are 7.5. i just didn't imagine there would be that much of a difference.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Speedmaster/746/PCE281.2149/10002/-1
Above are the heads ive ordered
https://www.jegs.com/i/PRW/228/3231812/10002/-1
above are the rockers and shafts ive ordered.

Stock 360 is 7.5" so you're measurements are too short. Ballpark, the pushrod should be within 0.25" of stock. You're sure that the lifter is resting on the cam base. The rocker arm adjusters are only showing about 1 thread pitch out of the bottom of the rocker. Make sure the lifter end of the checking pushrod is seated in the cup of the lifter, not hanging up on the edge.

My checking rods spun way too easily; just removing them from the rocker/lifter the top part would rotate a bit. I wound up loosely wrapping blue tape where the two parts threaded together and after determining the length, I pressed the tape around the push rod to secure it before removing it from the engine.

Are the aftermarket roller lifters being taken into consideration?

 

[bm73charger]

Stock 360 is 7.5" so you're measurements are too short. Ballpark, the pushrod should be within 0.25" of stock. You're sure that the lifter is resting on the cam base. The rocker arm adjusters are only showing about 1 thread pitch out of the bottom of the rocker. Make sure the lifter end of the checking pushrod is seated in the cup of the lifter, not hanging up on the edge.

My checking rods spun way too easily; just removing them from the rocker/lifter the top part would rotate a bit. I wound up loosely wrapping blue tape where the two parts threaded together and after determining the length, I pressed the tape around the push rod to secure it before removing it from the engine.

so no. the rocker adjustment was rotated out 3 full turns which is why i said id need to re measure. but im pretty positive the cam was on base. i rolled it over so it was on the tip and then spun it until it seemed like it was 180 degrees opposite.

i got fed up with the rockers and stopped. i will pick it back up sunday. i had previously spent about 3 hours meticulously adding and subtracting shims from the assembly to make sure the rockers were perfectly centered. and in my infinite idiocy i didn't do it while tightening stuff down. so obviously as soon as i cinched it down now the rockers wont move because there was 0 wiggle room. so i got tired of doing that and quit for the day. its about 100 in MD right now with a real feel of 113. so add in the heat and there may have been some tools thrown about.

i think the plan will be to get the cam on base. add an adj pushrod. figure out the spacing and shimming for the rocker assembly then tighten everything down. i will rotate the rocker adjustment fully out then give it about 1 turn in like you said. and then from there i will adjust the pushrod to make it 0 lash. then from what my book says i should rotate it 1 more full turn to set a round about even preload? does that sound right? then from there i will take the pushrod out. measure it with calipers and order. it looks like mine take dual ball ends so that seems pretty simple.