Fred is dead!

[oldbee]

Jeez, I hope Fred’s battery is unhooked while sitting….. That’s what I always do with mine, fire is what I don’t need.

 

[moparedtn]

Jeez, I hope Fred’s battery is unhooked while sitting….. That’s what I always do with mine, fire is what I don’t need.

It was not, unfortunately - leading to the draining of the battery, unbeknownst to me.
I hadn't planned on Fred sitting so much this summer, but between life events and the ridiculous
weather, there he sat...
Turns out though, it was a good thing. Might have saved the car really.

To top things off, my wife has already volunteered to get under the dash tomorrow and check out
the gauge (I don't "fit" under there anymore - part of being 2 1/2 years past my warranty).
Already decided we're going to do the "move one wire over to the other terminal and nail them together"
technique - I'll worry about a replacement gauge some other day.

 

[oldbee]

It was not, unfortunately - leading to the draining of the battery, unbeknownst to me.
I hadn't planned on Fred sitting so much this summer, but between life events and the ridiculous
weather, there he sat...
Turns out though, it was a good thing. Might have saved the car really.

To top things off, my wife has already volunteered to get under the dash tomorrow and check out
the gauge (I don't "fit" under there anymore - part of being 2 1/2 years past my warranty).
Already decided we're going to do the "move one wire over to the other terminal and nail them together"
technique - I'll worry about a replacement gauge some other day.

Told ya before, she is a honey!!!

 

[1967coronet]

Glad you got it going Ed.

 

[moparedtn]

Glad you got it going Ed.

Thanks, but nothing is going yet - it could very well be that the short is beyond the amp gauge I suppose,
but that is the next stop on the hunt since it's the first place current goes from the fusible link.

I still gotta find the damn short is the bottom line. Can't run the car like this.

 

[roadrunnerh]

Fred isn't dead yet!

 

[1967coronet]

Thanks, but nothing is going yet - it could very well be that the short is beyond the amp gauge I suppose,
but that is the next stop on the hunt since it's the first place current goes from the fusible link.

I still gotta find the damn short is the bottom line. Can't run the car like this.

Ed you can test with a multi meter set on DC amps.
Unhook your neg cable off the battery then place your meter leads inline between the cable and post.
A decent size draw or short will show up as current. If you find a leak you can pull a fuse one at a time to narrow down the offender.

 

[Don Frelier]

I would suggest removing the battery charge wire from the alternator and testing for a short.
That seems more likely than a bad ammeter and far easier to remove and test.

A smaller battery like a lawn tractor or maybe a battery charger might be a good idea for testing so you don't damage wiring. ( Less available short circuit current)

Just a couple ideas.

 

[Triplegreen500]

I have a quick disconnect terminal on my Charger's negative battery post

Clamps to the battery terminal, car cable terminal clamps to the other side. Undo the plastic knob to disconnect for storage. And, lets me check for spark/short every time I hook it up.

Another thing to remember - you can get 12.6v and still have a dead battery. It's called AMPS. 12.6v has to go through a fire hose to start a car (800CCA - cold cranking amps). But if you have, say, 50CCA, you're trying to start a car with 12.6v traveling through a sippy straw. It may be enough to power a radio, or a horn, or a dome light...but nowhere near enough to start the engine. Without a proper LOAD test, "12.6v" means nothing.

If you don't have a load tester, you can do a rudimentary test with a voltmeter. Put it on the battery and it will (in this case) show 12.6v. keep it attached and try to start the car, and you'll see it drop. A LOT. Like, 4v or less. Maybe 0. Do it with a good battery and the drop is only down to maybe 12.1v, 11.5v...that, is the result of amperage (or the lack thereof).

 

[GTXDAN]

If you have bucket seats Ed it's easy to just remove the 4 nuts from the seat and pull it out to give you plenty of room to get under the dash. I don't fit in there at all so that's what I do. Good luck.

 

[davek]

Sorry about all the craziness with Fred hope you get it worked out Ed.

 

[Moms68]

I know a guy that had an ammeter go bad JUST before a road trip....
@1 Wild R/T knows what I'm referring to here.
The wire diagrams that I have refer to the wire junction as a "welded splice". The power comes through the bulkhead TO the ammeter, then out of the ammeter to the junction that splits to the ignition switch, headlight switch and the fuse panel. Some people just connect the ammeter input and output together and then tape it up. The ammeter will not move anymore but the car will run. There are plenty of people with spare parts if you care to swap in another ammeter OR you can rig up a cheap voltmeter and hang it under the dash.

Amen. See post 28

 

[Fran Blacker]

If you have bucket seats Ed it's easy to just remove the 4 nuts from the seat and pull it out to give you plenty of room to get under the dash. I don't fit in there at all so that's what I do. Good luck.

I do the same with the bench sear in my 65 Dodge. Just unbolt the seat open passengers door, pull half way out.

 

[moparedtn]

I would suggest removing the battery charge wire from the alternator and testing for a short.
That seems more likely than a bad ammeter and far easier to remove and test.

A smaller battery like a lawn tractor or maybe a battery charger might be a good idea for testing so you don't damage wiring. ( Less available short circuit current)

Just a couple ideas.

EXCELLENT suggestion Don. I had totally forgotten that one, thanks!

 

[moparedtn]

Ed you can test with a multi meter set on DC amps.
Unhook your neg cable off the battery then place your meter leads inline between the cable and post.
A decent size draw or short will show up as current. If you find a leak you can pull a fuse one at a time to narrow down the offender.

I ain't no electrical expert, but I think I get what you're saying.
With several items already unplugged, however, I don't know that I can do what you suggest at this point without
putting at least some of it back together - besides, a spark at the battery terminal is just fine in telling me something
is still amiss. Thanks.

 

[moparedtn]

I have a quick disconnect terminal on my Charger's negative battery post

View attachment 1899095

Clamps to the battery terminal, car cable terminal clamps to the other side. Undo the plastic knob to disconnect for storage. And, lets me check for spark/short every time I hook it up.

Another thing to remember - you can get 12.6v and still have a dead battery. It's called AMPS. 12.6v has to go through a fire hose to start a car (800CCA - cold cranking amps). But if you have, say, 50CCA, you're trying to start a car with 12.6v traveling through a sippy straw. It may be enough to power a radio, or a horn, or a dome light...but nowhere near enough to start the engine. Without a proper LOAD test, "12.6v" means nothing.

If you don't have a load tester, you can do a rudimentary test with a voltmeter. Put it on the battery and it will (in this case) show 12.6v. keep it attached and try to start the car, and you'll see it drop. A LOT. Like, 4v or less. Maybe 0. Do it with a good battery and the drop is only down to maybe 12.1v, 11.5v...that, is the result of amperage (or the lack thereof).

Great information, but right now I'm chasing a short in the wiring. I'm not interested in just driving the car with the problem
still present - it'll remain partially disassembled until I can determine and correct the issue. Thanks!

 

[Triplegreen500]

Great information, but right now I'm chasing a short in the wiring. I'm not interested in just driving the car with the problem
still present - it'll remain partially disassembled until I can determine and correct the issue. Thanks!

I get that. I was just trying to clarify why you had 12.6v at rest, but no crank.

DEFINITELY fix the problem.

I run the factory ammeter in my Charger...plus a modern volt gauge next to my Sun SuperTach II under the dash.

And I keep a spare NOS regulator in the glovebox. (I do need to add a spare ballast resistor though....)

 

[moparedtn]

UPDATE - PART DEUX:
First, SPOILER ALERT:
Fred is alive and well!
(After I fetch him a new battery, anyways...)
I'm sure some are curious what the issue wound up being and uhhh...
Well, I'm not sure quite how to explain all that has occurred today in Fred's surgery booth, honestly.
This got weird, man.

Guess I'll start at the beginning of the day, where I expected to 1)confirm yet again that a spark/short
was present and 2)that Fred's now old battery wasn't up to the task of, well, anything...
Yep, had to fetch the truck around and pilfer its' battery again, even though Fred's old one had once again
been on the charger all night.
She gone...
Next, to that pesky (but quite vibrant) spark I was chasing seemingly all day yesterday - but, like, it was
gone, man. Say what? Touching the battery positive to the Fusible Link emitted only the very faintest of sparks,
damn near indiscernable by the naked eye.
I was damn near pissed at the absence of it...but then it occurred to me that I perhaps hadn't have checked for
that spark last thing before I called it quits the night before, either.
Oy...

First order of business was to check the alternator as @Don Frelier had suggested. Field, output, all that jazz, one
by one. Nope...
Then we went after the voltage regulator, same deal. Even the ballast, no dice. Wipers again. Nope.
Still the faintest of spark was present when the Fusible Link was connected to the battery.

Regardless, the wife and I carried on the plan. I dutifully removed the bucket seat and she got up under the dash,
following my instructions on what she was looking for (back of ammeter) and then dutifully taking some pics
of same to confirm - yep, she had found it, it was clear to see (and lay hands on) and she set about checking for
issues.
I looked at the pics she was taking and I saw pretty much the same situation as when I had taken the instrument
cluster out some years ago - namely, a near-spotless gauge and perfect-looking posts and wires.
I asked her to carefully take a socket and snug the connections if needed - and she said the black wire took just
a little bit; the red one was still as tight as when I had reassembled it years ago.
When she asked me if we were still going to bypass it, I said "hell no, looks fine".
I checked for a spark again at the battery and again, there was just the faintest of one - so we carried on with our testing.

We visited the ignition switch again, then the fuse box (one fuse at a time, no less). We went back under the hood and
checked stuff all over again. Still, a tiny spark...
I made a new jumper wire from firewall connector to the blade connector on the relay (circuit comes from the ignition
switch). Had to use those "household" blade connectors because the existing one was wrecked...
Made another new line for a little ground I use between the negative battery post and the rad support next to it...
We went over the whole damn she-bang again and I realized:
We had checked every possibility in the entire battery flow circuit on the car.
Sure enough, according to the FSM wiring schematic, we had travelled from the battery all the way around the horn
and wound up at the alternator, with all countries visited multiple times on the trip to boot.

But just then, speaking of dull sparks and dim lights...here's where it got stupid (ok, here's where I realized I was
stupid, anyways). A dim bulb of my own appeared over my noggin...
I look over at my wife, who is dutifully now ready to help bolt the seat back in and ask "ummm, have the doors been
open this whole time?"
She says yep, all the time we've been working on Fred...and I immediately felt like the biggest jackass on the ridge.
Of course there's been a faint spark every time you've checked, Ed - the damn inside lights are ON!!!
Oy...again (literally smacked my own forehead).
"Dear, would you please close that door while I get this one?"
Checking....NO SPARK.
Repeat check...Onay ArkSpay.
One last time....There's no spark, idiot. Quit checking.

Car was put back together in relative silence, what with all the improvements and such. The truck battery was employed
as a final test (and with Fred unusually parked backwards in the garage from that lovely $$$ flatbed ride the other day).
The lights inside were BRIGHT. The idiot lights on the dash upon key activation were VIBRANT.
Most importantly, when I hit the key, Fred instantly roared to life, as if he were profoundly insulted at all that had
recently occurred.
If a car could snort indignantly, he just did.
I called my wife over to the open drivers' door and pointed out the ammeter to her, which was functioning exactly like
it should. I told her "that is the result of your hard work, dear".
She never could take a compliment - she sort of shrugged and said "you did all this. I just did what you said"...
but I saw the faintest of smiles on her as she walked away and headed for the a/c in the house.

EPILOGUE:
Fred now has freshly sorted electrical innards (where I could figure out improvements were needed, anyways).
I'm a thousand times relieved (if not still a tad wary, if I'm honest) and I'll fetch him a new battery.

CONCLUSION:
Both Fred and my wife deserve a better steward than me. Maybe one day they'll realize same, God willing...

 

[Richard Cranium]

Cliff notes?

 

[moparedtn]

Oh, a few bonus pics of the back of the ammeter for you folks: