Those are what I put on my 67.
Besides the bolts I did weld each end.
They did help my car, it was a solid car , pan but after 50 plus years they all get fatigued.
confusion on frame connectors
- Thread starter gtxrt
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Besides the bolts I did weld each end.
They did help my car, it was a solid car , pan but after 50 plus years they all get fatigued.
dfrazz
Well-Known Member
This is what I have done in several of my B and E bodies. Simple, tucks up tight nicely so you cannot see it from a side view, and makes a big difference in solid feel of the car and fitment of doors/glass.
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icetech
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I went with Us Cartool on my '62... it was about an hour of grinding them to fit better then welded in... i'm a hack and they were easy enough for me.. and once painted they pretty much look factory..
In the past i have done 2x3 through the floor and it works fine, but was more work and didn't look near as good.
The USCT also stiffened it a ton, before them the car would flex so much that i couldn't open ther doors on jack stands..
In the past i have done 2x3 through the floor and it works fine, but was more work and didn't look near as good.
The USCT also stiffened it a ton, before them the car would flex so much that i couldn't open ther doors on jack stands..
If you go with the US Cartool, be aware that you will need to deal with routing the e-brake cable through the drivers side connector. I also modified the right side so a one piece fuel line could be used. I used the USCT's once and said never again. Rectangle tubing and a couple flat plates work just as well and are far easier to install.
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ckessel
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Regardless of which direction you choose for your SFC's, they need to be welded in while the car is on its wheels. If you put it on a two post lift, jack stands, jacks etc, the body sags from the weight. Once welded in place, have fun opening or closing the doors. If you have an empty shell with no drivetrain, interior, glass etc, then it generally is not an issue to put them in while on a two post lift, rotisserie, stands etc.
icetech
Well-Known Member
eck, that sucks.. on my 62 i didn't have to do any of that.. all different of course..
If i was gonna make some i would do like my challenger was and go front to rear right through the floor also with the floor welded to them.. worked great, carpet didn't fit soo well after though
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I blame JCC for questioning every modification that people do to their cars but sometimes the guy has a point.
I would love to see actual data showing the reduction in flex from adding frame connectors of all types… Bolt in, weld in, weld in including to the floor pan and then the Birdsong style that cuts through the torsion bar crossmember to tie directly to the front frame rails.
I put connectors in 4 cars so far. Only one was driven before and after. I noticed fewer rattles and an overall more solid feel but I wonder if I really felt an improvement or if I had myself convinced that it had to be better.(placebo effect)
I do think that they help but I would feel more confident with real data.
XV Motorsports did this very thing 15+ years ago. They were the first ones that I recall that made those floorpan fitting 3 sided weld in frame connectors. I know from construction that framing is greatly reinforced with plywood nailed to it so the theory of welding the connectors to the floor pan seems legit except…what stresses would the car endure that would benefit from that? Is the mid section of the car subject to parallelogramming? I doubt it.
My bonehead logic tells me that the frame connectors prevent the car from twisting like a corkscrew as viewed from the front or back. It seems that welding to the floor may not be of much value in that case.
I’m willing to debate though, in the interest of learning.
The Birdsong version though… is it really any better than welding to the torsion bar crossmember? Doing it that way means moving fuel lines on the right and brake lines on the left. Is there enough benefit from his design to make it worth the extra work?
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On '65 and earlier B-bodies, the fuel lines run on the outside of the frame connectors, while the E-brake cables run on the inside. Thus, no holes through the connectors.
ckessel
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I felt a difference on the wagon. The SFC's were the first portion of the upgrades I did to the car. Going over the same streets/roads before and after, I felt the difference. Not as loose now. Since it's my DD, I'm in it quite a bit driving. And then there's the other work I did. But thats a different subject.
68-500
Well-Known Member
Thats the best looking sfc I have ever seen. They even attach to the torsion support in the same spot as the front frame rails. Nice
Is there any advantage to rectangular tubing vs. square? Stronger?
matthon
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Ditto, I like real world data.
I cut virtually everything out of my 62 Dart, firewall, torsion bar crossmember, floors, relying on a few welded in supports.
Took before and after measurements and nothing changed.
The rockers are tied to everything and are substantial.
Not saying frame connectors wouldn't help, but it's not like the front of the car isn't tied to the rear, even the floor itself is structural, no?
USC has other pieces that interest me, the front torque boxes and inner fender braces, but too much $ for me at this time.
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to KD's point......
I put connectors on this convertible camaro, everything welded solid,
the doors open and shut perfectly hanging on the rotisserie like a hammock; with zero change when sitting on the ground...... even I am impressed
I put connectors on this convertible camaro, everything welded solid,
the doors open and shut perfectly hanging on the rotisserie like a hammock; with zero change when sitting on the ground...... even I am impressed
I used 2"x3". That fits nice and you don't have to cut into the floor of the car.
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I found the article in Mopar Action, the one about XV Motorsports. This was 2006. They claimed that in testing, the rear structure was fine. The front did benefit from bracing under the radiator as well as triangulation at the upper control arm mounts to fender aprons and outer edges of the cowl. It seemed like they saw frame connectors as an afterthought, like they didn’t rate as high as other areas in terms of where big gains could be found.
Common sense tells me that a welded connector would flex less than one that is bolted.
Also, if a 3 sided one were welded to the floor, it would mimic the factory frame rails since they were U Channel of 14 gauge steel relying on the thin 18 gauge sheet metal floor pan. That is assuming you could weld an inside corner with the same solid connection as the factory spot welds from a flat flange on a frame rails since to the floor pan.
In the red car, I used 3x3 .120 wall square tubing that was cut only at the rear where it would have intruded up into the interior. I cut the tops of the 3x3 down but boxed them back in. I made side pieces to extend up to the floor pan that made it look like one piece XV units. I could have used thinner tubing since I’d bet that .090 thickness would probably be plenty. You get to a point of diminishing gains while only adding weight.
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Yeah....I know. Like I said I haven't tried his method. I guess you'd have to hit him up on why he thinks it's better, but like many things on these old cars, the longer guys think about it and the more time they have for the internet, the more 'theories' they can concoct! I've come across some pretty silly "solutions" to things that in real-world terms would never have been problems to begin with.
I do know (with no quantifiable data whatsoever!) that adding "some kind" of sub-frame tie does stiffen things up just based on driving a car before and after. Like in drag-type situations, the rear plants a little better with frame connectors.
Hopefully he wears a hat so people don't notice it
451Mopar
Well-Known Member
I like the look of the US Car Tool connectors, but they are alot more work than plane tubing.
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