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Timing A 1966 California HP383 Engine

Mariposa Mike

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I wish to check my timing on the 66 California Charger with a 383 HP engine. This was the first year a smog device was required and only installed on CA cars I believe. So I have a vacuum module that I believe retards the spark/timing and a CAP carb which has a vacuum port routed to the module and then to the vacuum advance on the distributor. I thought the initial timing would be the same on the engine but the books say instead of 10-12 degrees BTDC these are timed 5 degrees after TDC. The current timing, whatever it is, does not cause any pinging but I have been running octane boost and lead additive. I'm looking for advice before I go deeper into this. At one point I thought about disconnecting/removing the module but was not sure if the CAP carb would be affected by doing that. Then thought well it's running okay and I like keeping cars stock if possible. In CA it's no longer required for pre 1975 cars to be smog tested every two years. I recall many years ago I could plug a vacuum line with a BB to block a vacuum port. But can't recall now why. Should I leave this alone or can I get a better running engine with more power w/o the device?
 
Sounds similar to the OSAC valve I had on my 74 Rallye 440 Charger. I gutted it and ran the advance vacuum line right through the case. It looked completely stock. It should have improved HP a little, but from the seat of the pants it sure was not noticeable. So, my opinion is that any change will be negligible and just leave it stock.
 
I don’t know what all that garbage is, but I’d ditch it. Just run standard stuff with a normal hi po curve and be done with it.
 
I'll try disconnecting it and see what it does to timing. That's what has be curious. How can timing be retarded 15 degrees with that device? I'll mark where it is now and then see what it does when disconnected. If it remains retarded then I can try bumping it up to stock for an engine w/o the CAP. Might ping though with 91 octane and only some boost added. Then back it off to where it does not.
 
I'll try disconnecting it and see what it does to timing. That's what has be curious. How can timing be retarded 15 degrees with that device? I'll mark where it is now and then see what it does when disconnected. If it remains retarded then I can try bumping it up to stock for an engine w/o the CAP. Might ping though with 91 octane and only some boost added. Then back it off to where it does not.
I would find a standard points distributor and put yours in a box.
More base timing is best and a working vacuum advance helps.
 
Here is a link to an interesting and informative article on the Clean Air Package (CAP). While the article references a 225 6, the design concepts are the same for all CAP cars.

The article points out the basic elements of the CAP design:

“The system comprised this control valve, a carburetor with leaner and more precise calibration, and a distributor with a modified centrifugal advance curve to provide normal levels of spark advance for acceleration and cruising despite the retarded basic timing.”

So the carburetor and distributor (if original) are calibrated to operate with a lower base timing.

 
Very interesting article and thank you. I do have a working vacuum advance and the original CAP carb. When rebuilding the carb I read the instructions that came with the kit and the caution to not remove the idle screws. They had a "stop" to them but mine had been overcome in the past and I was able to remove them. That made me recall from years past about high performance carb builders doing that. Read the article twice. I cannot determine if the retarded timing affects the high performance of the engine. IE. acceleration off the line. It would seem retarded timing would reduce HP overall unless the CAP device keeps your distributer advanced to overcome that. No mention of the centrifugal advance being changed.

One other note. I know the engine has in excess of 100K miles but does not burn oil. When friends have followed me they see a whiff of smoke when decelerating. We believe that is due to worn valve guides. But now I'm wondering if its also the CAP device.

Disconnecting this device would maybe cause another issue since I would still have the CAP carb. I could advance the timing but the carb metering might be affected. Any thoughts on this???
 
I have the original jets and 3 step metering rods for a "Normal" 66 383 hp at home. ( I'll never use them)
Let me know if you would like them and I can mail them out.
 
I wish to check my timing on the 66 California Charger with a 383 HP engine. This was the first year a smog device was required and only installed on CA cars I believe. So I have a vacuum module that I believe retards the spark/timing and a CAP carb which has a vacuum port routed to the module and then to the vacuum advance on the distributor. I thought the initial timing would be the same on the engine but the books say instead of 10-12 degrees BTDC these are timed 5 degrees after TDC. The current timing, whatever it is, does not cause any pinging but I have been running octane boost and lead additive. I'm looking for advice before I go deeper into this. At one point I thought about disconnecting/removing the module but was not sure if the CAP carb would be affected by doing that. Then thought well it's running okay and I like keeping cars stock if possible. In CA it's no longer required for pre 1975 cars to be smog tested every two years. I recall many years ago I could plug a vacuum line with a BB to block a vacuum port. But can't recall now why. Should I leave this alone or can I get a better running engine with more power w/o the device?


In the 1966 and 1967 Cleaner Air Package (CAP) installations, the three included components are as follows:
  1. The carburetor is calibrated to provide a leaner mixture at idle and during low speed operation.
  2. The distributor is revised to provide retarded timing at idle.
  3. A vacuum advance control valve is added to operate with the distributor to provide advanced timing during deceleration.
Timing at idle is retarded in a CAP system. This, with a higher idle speed and leaner carburetor mixture was done to reduce the exhaust emissions. Although timing is retarded at idle, CAP allows conventional spark advance during acceleration and cruising.

The CAP vacuum advance control valve provides more spark advance during deceleration to reduce the exhaust emissions. The vacuum advance control valve is connected with three vacuum hoses -- one to the carburetor, one to the intake manifold, and the third to the distributor vacuum advance unit. Carburetor venturi vacuum signal and intake vacuum act on the internal spring of the vacuum advance control valve to control the signal to the distributor vacuum advance unit.

At idle, venturi vacuum is low and manifold vacuum alone does not move the spring, so no vacuum is applied to the distributor, similar to a standard ported vacuum system.

During acceleration or cruise conditions, the increased air flow in the carburetor venturi creates a stronger vacuum signal, and coupled with intake manifold vacuum, opens the vacuum advance control valve to provide vacuum to the distributor vacuum advance unit, similar to a conventional system operation.

During deceleration, emission levels are the highest in a conventional system. When decelerating, carburetor vacuum is low due to the closed throttle, and the vacuum advance control valve is activated alone by high intake manifold vacuum to provide maximum vacuum to the distributor vacuum advance unit, reducing emissions.

Although the CAP vacuum advance control valve fits in the distributor vacuum advance line, control is different from that used in the Orifice Spark Advance Control (OSAC) of the mid 1970s. OSAC was a delay of the vacuum signal from the carburetor to the distributor depending on ambient temperature.

Tuning a CAP engine to CAP specifications required a retarded initial timing at idle and advance was added as previously described during operation.

The CAP vacuum control system can be bypassed by running a vacuum line directly from the carburetor ported vacuum fitting to the distributor vacuum advance unit, and blocking off the intake vacuum line.

If the vacuum advance control valve is bypassed, additional initial timing can be set and the engine treated and tuned as a non CAP engine with conventional vacuum advance. With the initial timing now advanced more, idle speed will be even higher and must be lowered and balanced with initial timing increase(s). Overall distributor centrifugal advance curve changes might be made as well.

The CAP leaner carburetor may require adjustment to richen the idle after bypassing the vacuum advance control valve, and resetting initial timing and idle speed, depending on conditions. With an otherwise stock engine and exhaust system, it may run okay as is. In general, only the idle and primary circuits are affected by the leaner calibration.

Removing an operational CAP setup may not increase overall performance of the engine by its absence alone, but will yield a simpler setup for more direct tuning control, which can yield better performance. Removal without adjustments as described to compensate for it will yield worse performance until the timing, idle speed, and possibly carburetor adjustment has been performed to make it an operational conventional setup.



Although the specifications and settings are in the service manual if retaining the CAP system, the following images show the CAP settings for 1966 383 four barrel engines with manual and automatic transmission from the Chrysler CAP 1966-67 Engine Performance Evaluation with CAP document, TMC-103, for reference.

PXL_20251003_185429078.jpg


PXL_20251003_185436987.jpg


PXL_20251003_185508928.jpg


PXL_20251003_185450646.jpg



 
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Thank you for the detailed explanation and thank you Don for the parts offer. I'm printing this for future reference in case I want to make the change. It appears that I would need Dons parts to do this correctly and I'm not sure it's even necessary. The engine runs pretty decent for its miles and I'm not racing so it doesn't matter much except for there being another piece on the engine to clutter it up. I'm concerned for the future if the CAP part failed given there is no aftermarket for them. Then I would need to make the mod. So having the spare parts Don has would be good. There are more pressing repairs to be made to the car this winter. Have to get the instrument lights working and have been talking with the expert on this forum for that.

This car was ordered with the stock 294 rear end so it's not by any means a drag racer but is pretty good for my mountain and highway driving. EVERYTHING is a highway drive for me to get to small or large towns so it saves a little on fuel. Appreciate y'all for the help in figuring the best approach and this website for being able to get this kind of tech info.
 
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