So called "Premier Engine Builder makes Rookie Mistake"?

SUPERSTOCKRACER · Sep 3, 2010

So I was wondering what you guys would do if you have used a engine builder for about 3.5-4 yrs and have given him 10's of thousands of dollars to build your motors, do all your chassis work, electrical rewiring, and rebuild your transmissions only to find out that in each and every case where he performed work for you he made rookie mistakes.
Its not that he's a novice or doesn't know what he's doing, but always in a rush and always paying peter to pay paul.
Well the icing on the cake is when he built my 588 indy motor with all the best parts he recommended and sparred no expense in the engine build.
megablock rb block, gas ported JE pistons,cam motion roller cam,TD Roller rockers,Callies crank,indy 572-13 cnc aluminum heads and only to find out the hard way that he never checked piston to valve clearance and miscalculated the compression on the motor and catastropic failure occured.
So my question to you is all now that all trust has been lost and after after being lied to you over and over about things being ordered and juggling money and things taken way too long to get finished what would you do since $13,300.00 has been lost due to a rookie 101 mistakes.
The problem is I brought the motor to get fixed by Best Machine in Mi.
and the Premier Engine Builder wanted to fix it but I lost all trust and I know it will be a nightmare again getting the motor fixed in a timely manner and I can't afford any more mistakes.
The stress this engine builder caused me is unbelieveable.
Not returning phone calls or emails, promising me that things were done and money was give3n to him to only find out no parts were ordered or any of the jobs started.
He only started the projects after threatening phone calls or emails.
'This was the last straw.

dusted72 · Sep 3, 2010

I say try to get him to fix it at his expense then when it is finished take it somewhere else and have them check it out to be safe.

696pack · Sep 3, 2010

Cut your losses now and move on.

With guys that have money problems and poor business practices but are talented, you always buy the parts and furnish them and NEVER pay their labor until things are complete.

If he has made as many mistakes as you say in the past, it is not going to change and why would you want to go through the aggravation and further chance that he will ruin more parts through his neglect.

Just chalk it up to experience and move on, don't ask me how I know.

mark42202 · Sep 3, 2010

696pack said:
Cut your losses now and move on.

With guys that have money problems and poor business practices but are talented, you always buy the parts and furnish them and NEVER pay their labor until things are complete.

If he has made as many mistakes as you say in the past, it is not going to change and why would you want to go through the aggravation and further chance that he will ruin more parts through his neglect.

Just chalk it up to experience and move on, don't ask me how I know.

x 1,000,000!!! There's no way in the world I would let him near my engine again. You would NEVER be able to be relaxed behind anything he ever builds again, so no use causing yourself undue stress. If he is truly concerned with making it right, get the work done by Best Machine then have him take care of the bill. If he is not willing to do that, he wasn't going to do a good job "taking care of you" this time, either. Just my .02.

Whompin_Wedge · Sep 3, 2010

hmmm thats weird...

a year ago you were praising that guy to no end... now he is a rookie?

just let chuck fix it and be done with it. That guy knows how to build some motors.

Casey

SUPERSTOCKRACER · Sep 3, 2010

Whompin_Wedge said:
hmmm thats weird...

a year ago you were praising that guy to no end... now he is a rookie?

just let chuck fix it and be done with it. That guy knows how to build some motors.

Casey

your absolutely correct, i praised him while i had 5 different things going with him over the course of the year. it was all about the cash and terrible customer service.the lies were absolutely incredible.
after this last rookie mistake, and looking back at how many mistakes he made, including building 2 transmissions incorrectly and overlooking bad bearings and shafts, and cutting axle tubes on 2 of my danas too long, and needing to pull them out and recut them and having to buy new axles.
Electrical gremlins due to rushing the job. i had to rewire alot it it myself and now its working properly.
I have had enough, just hope, Hemi-itis' Hemi is ok, i know he'll be rechecking everything.
I trusted this guy with all of my projects because i'm too busy with work to do alot of this myself.
some projects are just out of my league, and i dont have the right tools.
I gave him ample time to make restitution.
Legal action might have to happen very soon, if he doesn't answer the order and complaint letter.

68383GTS · Sep 3, 2010

I would find someone else or do it yourself.I bought a stroker motor from Speed O Motive out of CA and it lasted a whole 60 miles,due to a rookie mistake.My last motor I built myself two years ago and its still together.

SUPERSTOCKRACER · Sep 3, 2010

the motor is currently at best machine.
its almost ready to come home, just in time for fall air.
i lost all confidence in my old premier engine builder.
cant trust him, but i want restitution, every valve was bent and 1 broke causing piston , cam and lifter failure.
you dont realize what a nightmare he put me through with every project he touched.
everything he did for me went bad almost at the same time. with 2 tranny failures and a blown 588, enough was enough.

adamst56 · Sep 3, 2010

If he has cash flow problems you are not going to get much from him. Since he has made multiple errors in the past there is no reason to give him a chance to mess something else up. As hard as it is to do, just walk away. Lose his number and softly pass the word in the community to the facts of your issues. He will hopefully take on a new career soon.

5.7 hemi · Sep 4, 2010

As stated before, cut your losses and move on, it's a business decision, meaning yours and no one elses!

hunt2elk · Sep 4, 2010

Exactly what 5.7 hemi said. I would not have put up with it as long as you did.

dantrap · Sep 4, 2010

move your engine as you did, then sue his *** for the damages. If he can not or will not pay you may be able to close him down.

poppaj · Sep 4, 2010

Chris,
That is a shame that you are being jacked around. Chuck will do a good job on it for you. On large cubic inch motors especially, things like a good ring seal package is very important. Was cam changed after that motor was built? There is no excuse for not having the proper piston to valve clearance on a complete build. Also I am wondering if the motor was decked to ensure consistent numbers for each cylinder? Which valves were hitting, the exhaust? When I build one I always allow around .125 on the exhaust side, also like to set the deck height to no more than .005 in the hole. How did the cylinder walls look after dis-assembly? I guarantee you Chuck and Pete will find a lot of extra power. They also have a good split duration cam profile they are using that will make a big difference.:yes:

godfatherofchry · Sep 4, 2010

this is always a bad subject I don't think there is an engine builder out there that doesnt make a mistake now and then BUT the good ones will admit it and will usually only happen once at there expense.but if you keep having trouble with them its time to move on I have found that usually the first time they do something for you everything is fine I think to Impress you then its like some will slack up a little and continues to get worse the more they know you. if I had a HEMI there is only a couple of builders in the country I would use...that's my two cents worth.......Artie

696pack · Sep 4, 2010

Make no mistake, I would also sue him for the lose you have to do it correctly. Don't touch the engine yourself. Take it to another engine builder have it disassembled, document all problems, damage and cost of rebuild and parts necessary to make it right. File your claim, expect that the new builder will have to be depossed and testify in court.

The problem is that when you win a judgement will be COLLECTING it. Start now to see if he owns a house and plan on filing a lien on it for the amount of the judgement.

SUPERSTOCKRACER · Sep 4, 2010

poppaj said:
Chris,
That is a shame that you are being jacked around. Chuck will do a good job on it for you. On large cubic inch motors especially, things like a good ring seal package is very important. Was cam changed after that motor was built? There is no excuse for not having the proper piston to valve clearance on a complete build. Also I am wondering if the motor was decked to ensure consistent numbers for each cylinder? Which valves were hitting, the exhaust? When I build one I always allow around .125 on the exhaust side, also like to set the deck height to no more than .005 in the hole. How did the cylinder walls look after dis-assembly? I guarantee you Chuck and Pete will find a lot of extra power. They also have a good split duration cam profile they are using that will make a big difference.:yes:

JIM, every valve hit both intake & exhaust, he milled the heads way too much distorting the valve angle.
#8 EXHAUST VALVE broke at the top by the tulip and jammed in sideways smacking a few holes in the #8 piston.
cam, rods, all ruined.

SUPERSTOCKRACER · Sep 4, 2010

*******UPDATE************
after a nice long talk today between my engine builder and myself, we both worked out a amicable settlement that we both are comfortable with.
Things got out of hand where we both said things that we didn't mean and after talking we remained friends and I am looking forward to having everything back to normal.
We were friends for 5 years and He brought up things that i may bhave overlooked and i brought up things to him to keep a relationship alive.
ITS not good to ruin a relationship over something stupid. my apologies go out to him. anything can be fixed.

TS5064 · Sep 4, 2010

chuck and pete will go out of their way to help you out. they took care of me last week when i needed cam for my predator motor when nobody had one. i've been waiting for two months for a cam. my machine shop told me it was going to be two more weeks before they would get the cam so that's when i told them i'll find a cam my self. i called chuck and pete and they sold me a new 55mm cam for one of the 645 predators they are building. they will be doing my next motor.

superbee500 · Sep 5, 2010

At this point its probably best to just move on. Civil court will just be more money and time wasted. A Friend of mine is went through the same thing with a body shop. In the end he got nothing.

uke:

Good Luck
Kevin

HEMI-ITIS · Sep 5, 2010

The reality is that this particular builder is very talented but needs to improve hid biz skills.When I agreed to let him freshen my junk,I was lead to believe that it would be done sooner but he was very busy.If he told me from the git/go that he was busy and it would take 2 monthes before he could start,I would have waited.I still have several opsticles and hoops to jump through to make this happen.I picked up my chit yesterday and it's nice to have my HEMI back in MY garage again.It's gunna make some GOOD power!!:3gears::tread_on _me.gif:

So called "Premier Engine Builder makes Rookie Mistake"?

How would you handle this rookie mistake

Lose the engine builders number and move on

Sue him in civil court

Allow him to make restitution with labor and parts

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