Only runs at 54* advance iNITIAL!!

Cranky · Jan 19, 2014

Are you measuring at .050 lift? Yup, a stock cam should be opening the intake around 20* before TDC and close it around 65* ABDC.....looks to me like you'll be working on that one.....but your lift has me scratching my head some. Stock rockers are around 1.5 ratio but are sometimes all over the map.

DBSHEA · Jan 19, 2014

Cranky said:
Are you measuring at .050 lift? Yup, a stock cam should be opening the intake around 20* before TDC and close it around 65* ABDC.....looks to me like you'll be working on that one.....but your lift has me scratching my head some. Stock rockers are around 1.5 ratio but are sometimes all over the map.

Well, at 1.5 the lift would be .319/.322 I/E

Based on the rest of the information, is it even worth trying to dial this cam in?

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And yes, all measurements at .05

fugly · Jan 19, 2014

Checking in at the request of daredevil.....been out of the country for a week.....using your numbers you are dialed in at 91 degrees intake.....that is nowhere close

DBSHEA · Jan 19, 2014

If I was to mess with the cam timing by jumping a tooth or two I could try to land somewhere around 20* btdc, 58* bbdc on intake and 111*atdc, *65 btdc on exhaust.

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That should be around 51* intake center line

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I'm leaning towards pulling the cam completely.Not sure the damn thing is worth the effort .

bigblock · Jan 19, 2014

Sounds like the right course of action to me. Go roller.

DBSHEA · Jan 19, 2014

bigblock said:
Sounds like the right course of action to me. Go roller.

Suggestions? 346 heads, offy 360 intake, full exhaust. I am not looking for a racecar, actually far from it. I need a car that mama can get in a go, she refuses to drive my stroked and blown mustang. AND with all that said, the car needs a lot more than a hot motor, so my budget is pretty limited. I figure around $200 for a stick and lifters?

Cranky · Jan 19, 2014

The lift of that cam sounds kinda low imo. Been way too many years since checking a stock cam but iirc, the olden days magnum cams came in around .430 lift. If it were me, I would swap it out. I'm wondering if it's worn or not. And thanks Damon for dropping by.

DBSHEA · Jan 19, 2014

You are correct on the factory lift. Everything looks fresh, timing set has minimal wear, I'll be interested to see what the cam says once its out.

DBSHEA · Jan 19, 2014

Went ahead and ordered a purple 268/284

DBSHEA · Jan 20, 2014

Just pulled the cam, it's an Elgin e-924p

http://www.competitionproducts.com/...Cam-Chry-BB-421_444-112-LC/productinfo/E942P/

The timing set was a melling s366/67

dvw · Jan 20, 2014

DBSHEA said:
Just pulled the cam, it's an Elgin e-924p

http://www.competitionproducts.com/...Cam-Chry-BB-421_444-112-LC/productinfo/E942P/

The timing set was a melling s366/67

STOP,STOP,STOP According to your readings the intake opening was not only very late, it closed very early. That cam only had 142 degrees of duration and 215 lift on a 91 ICL? no way. I don't see a Elgin E-924 P listed. They do show a E-942P. Is that it? The specs are
B E-942-P HL-2011 CL-942PK
Hydraulic
.280
.295
.420
.443
270°
280°
204° @.050'
214° @.050"
int opens 5° ATC
int closes 29° ABC
exh opens 44 BBDC
exh closes 10° BTC
51° overlap
int c/l 107°
exh c/l 117°
112 LCA
You've now pulled the cam,ordered a new cam and have no idea what the original issue with timing was. Get someone to come over and help. Your methods of checking are not true or accurate. This is a very mild cam. You must find true TDC before any steps are taken. Does the mark on the balancer match true TDC?
Doug

DBSHEA · Jan 20, 2014

Doug, I appreciate the help. Tdc was verified on the dampner via piston stop. Tdc was also verified before degreeing. Typo on my part it is the 942. I am not one to throw parts at an issue, I'd be interested to hear what you feel was inaccurate.

dvw · Jan 21, 2014

DBSHEA said:
Doug, I appreciate the help. Tdc was verified on the dampner via piston stop. Tdc was also verified before degreeing. Typo on my part it is the 942. I am not one to throw parts at an issue, I'd be interested to hear what you feel was inaccurate.

Spec int open 5 ATDC Your reading 20 ATDC 15 degrees late
int closes 29 ABDC your reading 162 BBDC 47 degrees early
exh opens 44 BBDC your reading 154 BBDC 110 degrees early
exh closes 10 BTDC your reading 25 BTDC 15 degrees early

spec intake duration 204 degrees / 142 degrees
exhaust duration 214 degrees / 173 degrees
intake centerline 107 degrees / 91 degrees
exhaust centerline 117 degrees / 111 degrees
LSA 158 / 112 degrees
overlap 51 degrees / 8 degrees

You tell me?? The readings you show the engine wouldn't even run. Something in your method is incorrect. It's so far off I'm not sure what you did wrong.
Doug

daredevil · Jan 21, 2014

fugly said:
Checking in at the request of daredevil.....been out of the country for a week.....using your numbers you are dialed in at 91 degrees intake.....that is nowhere close

Thanks Damon youre my go to guy for cam info.

DBSHEA · Jan 21, 2014

I don't have a leg to stand on, so before going any further I'm going to re check all my numbers.

IQ52 · Jan 22, 2014

I've had this 54 degree problem twice with all the distributor and engines we've had to fiddle with, and both times the two wires going to the distributor were reversed.

DBSHEA · Jan 22, 2014

Elaborate? Also, I'm re degreeing the cam right now. Specs to follow.

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IQ52 said:
I've had this 54 degree problem twice with all the distributor and engines we've had to fiddle with, and both times the two wires going to the distributor were reversed.

Can you elaborate on this?

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DBSHEA said:
I don't have a leg to stand on, so before going any further I'm going to re check all my numbers.

Doug, you were 100% correct. I just finished up. This time going from the lifter not the valve. Intake is 8/30 exhaust 44/10 203/213 duration.

IQ52 · Jan 22, 2014

Can you elaborate on this?

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I'm not sure how to elaborate any further, but I'll try. Two electrical wires go into the side of the distributor just below the cap. One is a negative and the other is positive. One is orange, the other is black, purple or gray. If those wires are reversed (you said you changed all the wires) it changes the polarity of the distributor and messes up the phasing. Each time I've needed 50+ degrees initial to get the thing to idle, those wires were reversed. Once it was when I changed the advance curve and I put the magnet in reversed on my Mallory distributor. I swapped those wires and it fixed the ignition timing issue. So I swapped the wires back and turned the magnet back over and the ignition was fine. If you fire back up and the problem still exists, take the wire that is going to the orange wire on the distributor and connect it to the dark wire on the distributor and hook the other wire to the orange. It just might fix your problem.

DBSHEA · Jan 22, 2014

Well, ive got the new cam in and it's 1* from the ICL on the card. That's dot to dot. Just to verify my math, my work, abd my process I went ahead and checked it with the 3 way crank gear. Each time I was sitting 1* of the 4* advance/ retard. Doug, I don't know what I did that first day but I've been on the money all day today. IQ52, AS she sits mechanically it's as things should be. Before I fire it off I'm going to pin check all my wiring off the service manual.

dvw · Jan 22, 2014

DBSHEA said:
Well, ive got the new cam in and it's 1* from the ICL on the card. That's dot to dot. Just to verify my math, my work, abd my process I went ahead and checked it with the 3 way crank gear. Each time I was sitting 1* of the 4* advance/ retard. Doug, I don't know what I did that first day but I've been on the money all day today. IQ52, AS she sits mechanically it's as things should be. Before I fire it off I'm going to pin check all my wiring off the service manual.

Very good, now we'll tackle the timing issue.
Doug

Only runs at 54* advance iNITIAL!!

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