318 got a brother stumped...

[spcedwards214]

I've go the original 318 in this 66 charger of mine. Old man rebuilt it .40 over pistons, cam, stock heads etc. Pulled the timing cover to check the timing of crank and cam. Good to go. Set the valve clearances to .002 over warm specs according to my manual because motor has yet to run. so we did .015 and .023. Check. Now he swapped the intake to a 4 barrel and put and holley on it which is fine. Distributor has been pointed to #1 at TDC, wires ran correctly, etc. Now this thing sounds like it wants to start but can't because of timing. But me and another master tech have checked and triple checked everything according to what we find in the manual and from the forums. This thing will still not run. Now the oil intermediate shaft under the distributor (does this matter how it is installed, could it be throwing off my time). Please for the love of god, shoot me some ideas. I've taken off the starter to check the brushes for drag just to keep trying but this thing is driving me looney. Can't wait till my 440 is finished. Thanks for your input in advance.

 

[Cranky]

If you confirmed that the timing mark on the balancer is correct then the distributor pointing at #1 should be good enough for it to fire up however, I like to advance the timing a tad especially on low compression engines. You could leave the dizzy a but loose and turn it as you crank on the starter and see if it responds.

 

[abloch]

I will assume you have fuel and spark? I realized today that my rotor spins counter clockwise. DOH! swapped the wires and VROOOM! fired right up.

 

[WP29440SE]

the distributor drive slot and rotor can point to England as long as it is firing the number one cylinder at tdc

 

[rumblefish360]

Take the distributor up and out, rotate it 180*'s, drop it back in and fire it up.

 

[sleepar]

Take the distributor up and out, rotate it 180*'s, drop it back in and fire it up.

Does it fire and pop out the carb and want to kick the starter back? 180° out would
Do it sometimes the intake interferes with the vacuum advance and won't allow the distributor to turn enough... move all the wires over one hole...

The biggest problem is on a poly 318 the timing marks and damper is on the other side as the LA 318... not 180° out and I don't remember which cylinder you time one on... but it has been forever since I timed a poly... My 67 LA318 had the poly timing set up and I converted over to the '68 and up and it times on #1 now... but it didn't
I assume adjustable valves is a poly motor.

Some of the old polly motors had a hole in the bell housing for a light to hit a mark on the flywheel... what year motor?

 

[saschu67]

How old is your distributor? Is it from A donor engine, some time's they may look good yet can be worn and will oval instead of circle throwing the point connection out and giving it that im gona start feeling but not quite getting the full contact. Point's are they worn or new?same on condenser, after I installed A 440 in my bro's 71 satellite,hooked it all up and went to lunch, he installed A used distributor A worn one.Starting the engine at #1 and at tdc the carb blew a 2foot flame very impressive if I were at A tractor pull. close examination we could see it had A slight wobble which misaligned the point's contact.Good luck!

 

[cbodybob]

Take the distributor up and out, rotate it 180*'s, drop it back in and fire it up.

Thats what I was thinking.

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Does it fire and pop out the carb and want to kick the starter back? 180° out would
Do it sometimes the intake interferes with the vacuum advance and won't allow the distributor to turn enough... move all the wires over one hole...

The biggest problem is on a poly 318 the timing marks and damper is on the other side as the LA 318... not 180° out and I don't remember which cylinder you time one on... but it has been forever since I timed a poly... My 67 LA318 had the poly timing set up and I converted over to the '68 and up and it times on #1 now... but it didn't
I assume adjustable valves is a poly motor.

Some of the old polly motors had a hole in the bell housing for a light to hit a mark on the flywheel... what year motor?

Yep thats true. Make sure you have the right timing cover.

 

[spcedwards214]

Ok to answer all of your questions at once, I have no clue how old the distributor is. I have tried both ways 180 out or vice versa. I'm getting fuel and using starting fluid, new plugs, new cap and coil. I did just see something interesting. The rotor rotates counter clockwise? If this is true then this is where i'm F'ing up. All my master techs and buddies are chevy this and that and not one of them understands a mopar. I don't see whats so hard about them other than the fact that i'm to young to know much about carbs and mechanical timing. But i'm excellent with computers and new cars with their fuel infection lol. Will eventually get it. Tearing the starter apart to check brushes. Will probably replace it anyways since a brand new on is like 35 bucks along with new battery. But other than timing that's all this thing should need. What typer of distributor should I look for if this one is a bust? Thanks for all the input guys. Love my mopar crowd.

 

[mrsnicks]

I had a no start issue and it ended up being the ignition condensor.

Just my 2cents.

Patrick

 

[ws27]

Take the distributor up and out, rotate it 180*'s, drop it back in and fire it up.

That's what I'd od first, you could be timed to TDC on the exhaust stroke.

 

[rumblefish360]

Sleepar, always time with the #1 cylinder.
I do t know about the bell housing hole.
273's & the AAR Cuda had adjustable rockers I'm addition to the poly engines.

If you switched timing covers, what I have done along with it is also swap the balancer along with it. That is what I have done in the past. I actually do not know if there is a differance In Timing marks on the harmonic balancers. I failed to check. I'll do it later today. But I figured, they belonged together and they maybe slightly different. I didn't want to bother installing everything on a mock up and finding out I have to do it over again.

On the timing of the cam/engine on a fresh build or new cam installation;

Once I bring the #1 cylinder to TDC and align the intermediate shafts slot to aim at the #1 cylinder, the distributor gets installed without the cap. I move the vacuum advance tube around to see where it can be most advantageous since not all manifolds will give the same clearance. Once I see a good spot, installing the cap is just a matter of lining up the tower to the rotor. I place the tower slightly offset to the rotor. This almost always gives me a quick and easy start up with minimal adjustment.

In going about it in this manor, the only time I have trouble is when it is 180*'s out.
After that, should there be a starting issue, it is probably some where else like the electrical system. Even a rough installation of the cam like a dot to dot installation should be good to start the car.

Unless there is a multiple key way used and a mistake is made, the cam is now advanced or retarded as installed, 4*'s out, coupled with the a bad dot to dot line up & the distributor being out.
It should really still start.
I did this mistake with the last 360 I built just recently. Valve were Danm scary close to the piston.

 

[67 Mopar]

I did just see something interesting. The rotor rotates counter clockwise? If this is true then this is where i'm F'ing up.

Big block dizzy's rotate counter clockwise... you could be rotating the crank in the wrong direction.
If you have the service manual, you will find the instructions for the 318 dizzy installation, including proper intermediate shaft installation (where it should be pointing at TDC).
If you don't have the right service manual, go to MyMopar.com "Tools & Reference Section" and download one for free.
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=109

 

[YY1]

Scanned through the replies and didn't see to check the firing order versus the way the plug wires are installed in the cap.

FSM should show which tower on the dist is for #1.

Make sure they're not 1 off, or you'll have almost but not quite enough timing adjustment to get it to fire.

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It's not the ballast resistor, is it?

Fires, then instantly dies...

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Did you try jumping the coil to the battery?

The 67 I just bought had a bad coil wire and the firing order was messed up, with a questionable cap and a couple more bad wires to boot.

Points?

Is the gap set (I use a matchbook, but those are getting scarce).

 

[spcedwards214]

I have gone through the manual with a fine tooth comb and it's not that great. But its a stock motor with the exception of missing the timing indicator. I think i'm going to order one off ebay with the timing indicator in the cover which seems to match up perfectly. I've made a mark after checking the cam and crank timing and it aimed right at where number one should be. I believe it is a dizzy issue. I did also find the starter had a bad wire internally. replacing that tomorrow. but everything is stock except the fact it was rebuilt. Everything appears to be good. The wiring is a mess so i've ordered all new resistor block, voltage regulator which was missing, horn and starter relay. just to get that out of the way. The only thing left to replace is the dizzy which has a new cap and rotor. Also replaced the coil with a nice fresh new one the other day. It def sounds like timing so i don't know where i'm wrong on it but I know the order is 18436572 and the button has to point to number one. Engine hasn't started in a long while. Any clue on my valve clearance? I have the manual and believe it said .013 and .021 but it's cold so I assume .015 and .023 would be ok just to get her started. I know i'm not a complete idiot but this thing sure makes me feel that way. Also wires are so old they are discolored and are hard to see whats what but I believe its all right. thinking about manning up and spending the money on a painless harness. 500 seems just too much for something so simple though lol.

 

[spcedwards214]

Got a new resistor, relays, starter, and a timing cover with actual timing marks on it. Think that may help. Only question left is if I don't know what cam is in it and do not know what degrees to set it at does it matter? If I just put it at TDC on compression stroke, hook up the wire to number 1 cylinder that is next to make contact with the rotor shouldn't she fire up and at least? Haven't got that far because I need to switch the timing cover that I just got and get some new gaskets but am I at least right with that assumption? Also my resistor ballast was broken in half and I never knew it, also didn't have a voltage regulator. I wouldn't think these things would keep it from firing up but who knows.

 

[WP29440SE]

If I just put it at TDC on compression stroke, hook up the wire to number 1 cylinder that is next to make contact with the rotor shouldn't she fire up and at least?.

yes, you might have to move the distributor around a tad

Also my resistor ballast was broken in half and I never knew it, also didn't have a voltage regulator. I wouldn't think these things would keep it from firing up but who knows.

umm yes , without those in good working order , it will never fire up. the ballast is what feeds the coil.

 

[Car Nut]

I had something similar with my 318 Challenger when I bought it, the guy replace everything trying to get it to run. I took the cap off the distributor while cranking it and the rotor wasn't turning. I found the nylon gear was broke on the distributor or the pin was missing, something like that. Any way, I replaced it and the car fired right up.

 

[daredevil]

Solid cam? Loosen the lash up some.

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Got a new resistor, relays, starter, and a timing cover with actual timing marks on it. Think that may help. Only question left is if I don't know what cam is in it and do not know what degrees to set it at does it matter? If I just put it at TDC on compression stroke, hook up the wire to number 1 cylinder that is next to make contact with the rotor shouldn't she fire up and at least? Haven't got that far because I need to switch the timing cover that I just got and get some new gaskets but am I at least right with that assumption? Also my resistor ballast was broken in half and I never knew it, also didn't have a voltage regulator. I wouldn't think these things would keep it from firing up but who knows.

Broken ballast it wont start.

 

[spcedwards214]

Thanks guys for all of the help. I think we found the issue. I got all new relays and that ballast resistor. Just need to find the time to put it all back together and give it a try. Heres the old ballast for those who mentioned it lol. Never thought nothing of it. lol Will keep you all up to date to see if we run into any other issues. Fingers crossed. This is just for now while I'm prepping the 440 I just got for it to go to the machine shop and some hefty future purchases. Thanks again guys