400B to 500 stroker opinions

[4mulas]

Just about to undertake doing a 500 stroker based on the 400 motor.

Opinions? Anything to be aware of? Or complaints or positive input? Anything appreciate before I spend up o all the parts and labour!

69 B body 4 spd is the car!

Thank you

 

[451Mopar]

Is this a 4.15" or 4.25" stroke crank (499.10" or 511.12" @ 4.375" bore size)?
The 4.25" stroke kit seems to be pretty common.
I have a 4.15" stroke kit in the Charger, but it is more of a race engine with 12.4:1 compression, a 0.726" lift cam, and it can rev 7,000+ pretty easy.
I think the 4.25" stroke kit is a better choice for most street/strip applications where your not running really high RPM N/A.

 

[4mulas]

Its 4.15 stroke with 6.76 rod planned

Part of the reason for this combo is that I’m getting pretty darn good deal on a new Mopar performance crank, the early thick webbed 400 block already bored .030 over and aligned honed mains, just need final hone for piston figment, also getting a new rpm performer intake, a set of core 906 heads even though I’ll probably buy new aluminum heads, and some other odds and odds included too.

I’ll aim for low 10;1 or 10;5 to 1 compression max with source 440 pistons

 

[451Mopar]

The combination should fit with just taking a small amount off the oil pickup boss for clearance.
The short piston compression height puts the piston pin through the oil ring, so the pistons come with a oil ring support ring.
They are easy to install, no issue there, but before putting the pistons on the rods, inspect the oil ring grove where the pin hole is drilled/reamed through.
My Icon pistons had slightly raised burrs at the pin hole. The burrs kept the oil ring support from sitting down flush in the grove.
I noticed it when installing the oil rings and they were tight in the grove. I just used a small jewelers file to remove the burr and everything was fine.
You don't have as wide a selection of off-the-shelf pistons, Mostly flat tops with 5cc valve reliefs or the dished (reverse dome) ICON with 23.7cc dish volume.
With this in mind, you need to consider what compression ratio you want to run, and what cylinder heads (Volume) you want to use to get that compression ratio (unless you get custom pistons?)

 

[66Satellite47]

I would go 4.25" stroke, maybe Diamond or Arias pistons. 630 + lift cam. Compression is what your local gas provides. Aluminum heads are good on 92. Bigger CR needs race gas.

 

[4mulas]

451Mopar: Thanks, was probably going with either the choices from 440 source and and then choose the head to accommodate thatbpistopn to aim for 10-10.5 on the compression ratio for pump gas. I think he said they were made by icon, not sure.

For the other poster, the reason for the 4.15 stroke is that I’m getting a deal on all the stuff mentioned in the first post. A real good, so no I’m not looking at a new crank. The crank I’m getting is a Mopar perfectormande one bought new in 1997 that he hasn’t used. It was for RB motors so I’ll have to have the mains turned down to fit the B motor

 

[66Satellite47]

You will be very happy with a 4.15 crank. Put good aluminum heads on it. Indy Max wedge will give you all you need. Rod length is a tough call. My 1st low deck with stock low deck rods ran GREAT. But the longer rods should be good too. 7.15 is a good choice.

 

[451Mopar]

451Mopar: Thanks, was probably going with either the choices from 440 source and and then choose the head to accommodate thatbpistopn to aim for 10-10.5 on the compression ratio for pump gas. I think he said they were made by icon, not sure.

For the other poster, the reason for the 4.15 stroke is that I’m getting a deal on all the stuff mentioned in the first post. A real good, so no I’m not looking at a new crank. The crank I’m getting is a Mopar perfectormande one bought new in 1997 that he hasn’t used. It was for RB motors so I’ll have to have the mains turned down to fit the B motor

Yes, the 440 Source pistons are from ICON. If it is going to be a mild pump gas engine, most likely you will end up using the reverse dome (Dished) piston to keep the compression ratio from getting too high, unless your going to use a big cam, but you mentioned the Performer RPM, so I guess this will be a milder build?

 

[400sforever]

I have a 512 in my 74 se and its a total street savage. .smokes the tires all the way to 55 mph. Manual valve body 727 with 391 gears. I have the same setup going in my 72 se but not done yet. Both motors are pump gas, 74 has stealth aluminum heads. The cars are dangerous if you aren't used to that kind of power on street tires. John Wilson from anthon Iowa builds my engines; he is a legend

 

[4mulas]

Yes, just a performer Intake. I really want to keep everything under the hood of the stock belvedere

 

[4mulas]

Not too huge of a cam no. If I get one horse per cube that’s good. Lots of torque and free revving

 

[Challenger340]

Not too huge of a cam no. If I get one horse per cube that’s good. Lots of torque and free revving

Big Stroke and Big cubic Inch........ eat up the available small cam duration and cylinder head flow very quickly ? Add in a 4 spd with any gearing at all and usable rpm range gets diminished even faster, denigrating your "free revving" criterion ?
Just say'in....
it may be beneficial to target an rpm "range" you wish the Engine to be usable within for best results ? Then speak with someone with real world Engine Dyno data
and NO....
the Cam manu's "published" rpm ranges for their Cams are "pie in the sky" BS salesman's bluster pure & simple !

 

[66Satellite47]

One horse per cube is not very impressive. 1.4 or 1.5 per cube is what I shoot for. 500" 680 to 720 Torque would be good.

 

[4mulas]

Good advise. I will be relying heavily on my engine guy here too. He’s a mopar guru and I trust his advise and opinion much. We will sit down and map it all out for sure

 

[66Satellite47]

A good guy is reallly helpfull.

 

[4mulas]

One of my concerns was actually to see if anyone said they were excessively noisy with those short pistons but no one seems to notice or care. Which is good. I suppose you can run the clearances a little tighter like 4.5-5 thou and that should help with that too. It’s not like I’m going to be running it at 7500 rpm all day long on the street.

This whole big inch motor stuff is new to me so I could t even really tell what I should use for a cam. I do notice that lots of people posting give big lift and duration numbers, larger than I would have thought. Are you guys running solids of hydraulics?

 

[hunt2elk]

One of my concerns was actually to see if anyone said they were excessively noisy with those short pistons but no one seems to notice or care. Which is good. I suppose you can run the clearances a little tighter like 4.5-5 thou and that should help with that too. It’s not like I’m going to be running it at 7500 rpm all day long on the street.

This whole big inch motor stuff is new to me so I could t even really tell what I should use for a cam. I do notice that lots of people posting give big lift and duration numbers, larger than I would have thought. Are you guys running solids of hydraulics?

I'm going through the same questions as you building a 400 stroker. I am having Brian at IMM Engines do mine. He thinks that 440 Source kits bigger than a 470 are noisy and doesn't like that. He puts his own kits together for the 499's and bigger because of that. I am just doing a 470 so am going with the Source kit. Brian is the first person that has mentioned this noise issue, although I am not a motor guy and haven't talked to a lot of people about it.

 

[Sascha]

Hello!
I´m running pretty the same.
400 block with 440 source 500 stroker kit.
TrickFlow 240, Mopar M1 single plane, CR around 11,84, TTI 1 7/8, rest 3".
Don´t have cam specs in mind now but a relatively mild hydraulic roller with 1,5 Comp roller rockers.
4 speed and 3,55 gear.
Was not too noisy.
After about 8000km I have cylindergasket failure so we disassembeled the engine.
Was some wear from water and a little washed out from the Quickfuel but no signs from a piston kipping in the cylinder.
Ran strong with more than enough power for fast country road cornering and reved like a motorcycle;)

One of my concerns was actually to see if anyone said they were excessively noisy with those short pistons but no one seems to notice or care. Which is good. I suppose you can run the clearances a little tighter like 4.5-5 thou and that should help with that too. It’s not like I’m going to be running it at 7500 rpm all day long on the street.

This whole big inch motor stuff is new to me so I could t even really tell what I should use for a cam. I do notice that lots of people posting give big lift and duration numbers, larger than I would have thought. Are you guys running solids of hydraulics?

 

[451Mopar]

I have had no issue with the short compression height pistons. To me it is a non-issue, and fairly common on other brand strokers and even many modern engine designs. The cubic inches do eat up cylinder head volume and cam. With the lower compression pistons, cam duration will likely be in the high 230's to mid 240s @ 0.050" (these will seem fairly mild.) With the Flat top pistons higher compression, likely will be in the 250 to 260+ duration @ 0.050" range.
If you want to make some big power, use the flat top pistons, and max wedge port size heads with a solid roller cam.

 

[4mulas]

Big Stroke and Big cubic Inch........ eat up the available small cam duration and cylinder head flow very quickly ? Add in a 4 spd with any gearing at all and usable rpm range gets diminished even faster, denigrating your "free revving" criterion ?
Just say'in....
it may be beneficial to target an rpm "range" you wish the Engine to be usable within for best results ? Then speak with someone with real world Engine Dyno data
and NO....
the Cam manu's "published" rpm ranges for their Cams are "pie in the sky" BS salesman's bluster pure & simple !

I think I understand this. So for a street application would it be safe to say that perhaps a guy should stick to 451-470 max, would they be more efficient so to speak? Or is it okay to go with bigger cube motors like a 500 - 512 etc providing you match the head and cam profile accordingly?
What cam would you recommend to better help illustrate your thoughts/comment. The car has a 1:1 final drive 18 spline 4 speed and the rear gearing 3:54 ratio? I do plan on using an aluminum head, maybe Edelbrock e street heads 75cc with 2.14 intake 1.81 exhaust. Apparently they flow 278/206 at .500, I think good for flat tappet hydraulic cams up to 550 lift spring wise. With this I was thinking using the dished icon pistons thus giving 10-10.1: compression after a light block decking for to true up the mating surface.
I was thinking this combo will be pump gas friendly.