440 source heads

[Sweet5ltr]

And I agree with Budnicks, my post was to never 'scare' you away from Aluminum Heads. My post was to inform you that 440 source 'stealth' heads are inferior to the Eddy's OOTB. I am a 100% believer in aluminum heads. I would recommend saving the extra money and placing a set of RPM's on the car instead. They are an investment that is only spent once. If you ever desire additional power, just get a nice port job, and you are killing the Victor' flow #'s and have a 750HP+ capable head with standard rockers and ports.

 

[67Satty]

If I could go back in time, I would save a little longer and get the aluminum heads - because I like going to the track and I do want to go faster. And at this point it is going to be $$$ to swap to the aluminum heads. Besides the sorted-out heads, I'll need head gaskets, maybe bolts, maybe pushrods, who knows?

But...you can have fun with the stock iron, at least into the low-12 second range (maybe a lot faster in some cases depending on a lot of other things). I've done some posts on Moparts asking people how fast they've gone with bone-stock 906s and 452s and the answers were pretty surprising.

The other thing I would've done different is putting in a solid cam instead of a hydraulic. But that's what hot-rodding is all about too to me, refining things as you go to get faster and faster, it's just more expensive that way.

 

[Budnicks]

And I agree with Budnicks, my post was to never 'scare' you away from Aluminum Heads. My post was to inform you that 440 source 'stealth' heads are inferior to the Eddy's OOTB. I am a 100% believer in aluminum heads. I would recommend saving the extra money and placing a set of RPM's on the car instead. They are an investment that is only spent once. If you ever desire additional power, just get a nice port job, and you are killing the Victor' flow #'s and have a 750HP+ capable head with standard rockers and ports.

:iamwithstupid: hey now...LOL... the Victors are great heads too, just costly valve-train pieces, but can make monster power too, if that's what you need, with 280cc intakes OOTB compared to the 210cc's of the RPM OTTB, 400cfm pretty easily I would think, if you get 335+cfm out of a RPM...

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If I could go back in time, I would save a little longer and get the aluminum heads - because I like going to the track and I do want to go faster. And at this point it is going to be $$$ to swap to the aluminum heads. Besides the sorted-out heads, I'll need head gaskets, maybe bolts, maybe pushrods, who knows?

But...you can have fun with the stock iron, at least into the low-12 second range (maybe a lot faster in some cases depending on a lot of other things). I've done some posts on Moparts asking people how fast they've gone with bone-stock 906s and 452s and the answers were pretty surprising.

The other thing I would've done different is putting in a solid cam instead of a hydraulic. But that's what hot-rodding is all about too to me, refining things as you go to get faster and faster, it's just more expensive that way.

yes :iamwithstupid: you can go allot fast than 12's with Iron BB Wedge engine & iron heads, I went 10.02 with my old 68RR 3590#'s with very well ported high $$$ 906's, same as I went with the mildly ported, pocket ported mostly & gasket matched, different springs, retainers seals & locks, pushrods of proper style & length, on the "early 1st run of Stealth's" {before they melted down, because of a combustion chamber design flaw, 440source mad good on them "twice"} before I ever put the Eddy's RPM's w/mild porting 335cfm, better locks, retainers & springs to match my camshaft, proper length 3/8" push-rods, with no clearance issues {I had to clearance the Stealth's to use the 3/8" pushrods} & I went 9.77 @ 3520#'s after a little tuning, I think it was only 6 passes to get her dialed in to run 9.80's pretty consistently, before they kick me out because I only had a roll bar in my street car...LOL... even faster with N20... like I said before it's how you spend the money, not just on what you spend it on... there are far more factors involved here, than just money, but it does really help...LOL...

 

[DMR440]

:iamwithstupid: hey now...LOL... the Victors are great heads too, just costly valve-train pieces, but can make monster power too, if that's what you need, with 280cc intakes OOTB compared to the 210cc's of the RPM OTTB, 400cfm pretty easily I would think, if you get 335+cfm out of a RPM...

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yes :iamwithstupid: you can go allot fast than 12's with Iron BB Wedge engine & iron heads, I went 10.02 with my old 68RR 3590#'s with very well ported high $$$ 906's, same as I went with the mildly ported, pocket ported mostly & gasket matched, different springs, retainers seals & locks, pushrods of proper style & length, on the "early 1st run of Stealth's" {before they melted down, because of a combustion chamber design flaw, 440source mad good on them "twice"} before I ever put the Eddy's RPM's w/mild porting 335cfm, better locks, retainers & springs to match my camshaft, proper length 3/8" push-rods, with no clearance issues {I had to clearance the Stealth's to use the 3/8" pushrods} & I went 9.77 @ 3520#'s after a little tuning, I think it was only 6 passes to get her dialed in to run 9.80's pretty consistently, before they kick me out because I only had a roll bar in my street car...LOL... even faster with N20... like I said before it's how you spend the money, not just on what you spend it on... there are far more factors involved here, than just money, but it does really help...LOL...

sorry for my dumbness but what does OOTB and OTTB mean?

 

[Garys1969RR]

OOTB means "Out Of The Box" , or as it is when it gets to you. In other words, you take it out of the box and bolt it on with out any modifications. OTTB must mean Out To The Barn. That's where you take it out of the box and put it in the barn for 3 years. Lol just kidding. Prob a mis print.

 

[Budnicks]

OOTB means "Out Of The Box" , or as it is when it gets to you. In other words, you take it out of the box and bolt it on with out any modifications. OTTB must mean Out To The Barn. That's where you take it out of the box and put it in the barn for 3 years. Lol just kidding. Prob a mis print.

yeah just my fat fingers on little key board & type-o's, Gary I like the, OTTB Out To The Barn deal thou...LOL... ooops

 

[DMR440]

yeah just my fat fingers on little key board & type-o's, Gary I like the, OTTB Out To The Barn deal thou...LOL... ooops

Ha Ha funny stuff!

Ok so a very broad question here guys. How much would any big block head need to flow (cfm) to make 500HP? Let's just keep things simple and say we are talking stock bore/stroke B and RB motor. Do we need 220 or 280 cfm etc?

Again let's state the obvious that we are using a half decent 4BBL manifold, (the sticking point here is weather or not we're using a dual plane manifold or not, but how much difference does it make?), at least an 850 carb and assuming the cam is good enough to do it's job.

What RPM range would we need to achieve this? I don't think this would be hard to do or very expensive either. My way of thinking is we already have the cubes . . . how best can we utilize them?

 

[Budnicks]

Ha Ha funny stuff!

Ok so a very broad question here guys. How much would any big block head need to flow (cfm) to make 500HP? Let's just keep things simple and say we are talking stock bore/stroke B and RB motor. Do we need 220 or 280 cfm etc?

Again let's state the obvious that we are using a half decent 4BBL manifold, (the sticking point here is weather or not we're using a dual plane manifold or not, but how much difference does it make?), at least an 850 carb and assuming the cam is good enough to do it's job.

What RPM range would we need to achieve this? I don't think this would be hard to do or very expensive either. My way of thinking is we already have the cubes . . . how best can we utilize them?

I've been, by someone I really trust, he told the formula is roughly ball park in theory 2.06hp per/cfm of intake flow {can be higher too}, Naturally Aspirated, that's if everything is near perfect, proper shape of intake & exhaust port not just mass of air, proper size exhaust, proper size shape combustion chamber, proper camshaft profile & lift for the shape & size of ports & engine, proper sized valves, proper compression ratio, proper bore size, ring seal, valve size, fuel used etc., matching & tuned combo blah blah blah... that would be roughly 242cfm intake flow @ 100% efficiency... BUT remember a really good Professional engine builder, can usually only get in the neighborhood of 1.5 HP to the high side of about 2 HP per/cubic inch on a N/A BB wedge, with out breaking the bank, depends on budget too I'm sure.... Maybe IQ52 can better elaborate on the subject...

 

[IQ52]

Any big block head that flows around 250 cfm intake with 70% exhaust flow should be able to make 500 HP.

Tell you what we're gonna do. We have pulled a 1978 cast crank 440 outta the bone pile, we intend to leave it with the factory compression ratio, even if it is 7.3:1 and see what it will do with cam changes, manifold changes (intake and exhaust) and head changes. We are setting up, so far, with 346, 516 and 915 heads is different stages of porting. We'll of course keep track of the head flows vs horsepower in different combinations and see what we come up with. First results in about three weeks.

 

[DMR440]

Wow cool that sounds awesome, look forward to hearing about it :icon_thumleft:

 

[Boise68]

Jim,

I have a pair of 906 heads I can bring over, if you can add them to the comparison.

Any big block head that flows around 250 cfm intake with 70% exhaust flow should be able to make 500 HP.

Tell you what we're gonna do. We have pulled a 1978 cast crank 440 outta the bone pile, we intend to leave it with the factory compression ratio, even if it is 7.3:1 and see what it will do with cam changes, manifold changes (intake and exhaust) and head changes. We are setting up, so far, with 346, 516 and 915 heads is different stages of porting. We'll of course keep track of the head flows vs horsepower in different combinations and see what we come up with. First results in about three weeks.

 

[IQ52]

Jim,

I have a pair of 906 heads I can bring over, if you can add them to the comparison.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Budnicks]

Any big block head that flows around 250 cfm intake with 70% exhaust flow should be able to make 500 HP.

Tell you what we're gonna do. We have pulled a 1978 cast crank 440 outta the bone pile, we intend to leave it with the factory compression ratio, even if it is 7.3:1 and see what it will do with cam changes, manifold changes (intake and exhaust) and head changes. We are setting up, so far, with 346, 516 and 915 heads is different stages of porting. We'll of course keep track of the head flows vs horsepower in different combinations and see what we come up with. First results in about three weeks.

Oh boy, oh boy, I can't wait, sitting on pins & needles...LOL... this will be a great read... good luck & have fun, don't work to hard IQ52/Jim & say hi to Cody for me... when are you writing the "How to" book ??