6.1 Hemi in 70 Challenger

[soundcontrol]

mmissile, I got that "how hard can it be" attitude also! I do need to make a decision soon though, and get started either way I decide.

I really, want to keep all my interior stock, including the shifter. I took the Charger shifter apart, trying to understand how it works, and it shifts by a wire, and there is an electronic box that seems not removable on the shifter axle, (dont wanna break it) I can peek inside it though, and there is some movement in there, probably a plastic arm that pushes some switches or an optical sensor. It should not be too hard to apply that box to my stock shifter somehow, and make it move the same distance as the Charger shifter. There is also a solenoid, that works as a parking lock, with the smaller wire that controls the pink plastic piece, don't think any of the locking stuff is necessary. It locks the shifter in park until you press the brake pedal, the parking break pedal might be involved also. Also for the manual shifts there is 2 small switches that engages when the shifter is in D, those ar easy to put somewhere on the stock shifter or in that area.
Picture 1: shows the black box, that I can't seem to get in to without removing the axle, and ruin it.
Picture 2: The manual gear switches, 2 normal switches that can be anywhere.
Picture 3: Pistol grip. :headbang:

 

[mmissile]

PM sent.

 

[soundcontrol]

Well, I have decided how to go about this. I will start out using my 727. Then later switch to the NAG1. Reason behind that is that I really wanna drive the car next summer, and the NAG1 swap will take more time and a lot of fabrication, if I start that now, my car will be in pieces for more that a year, possibly longer. I talked to Chris at Hotwire and it is possible to get the harness that I can use for the NAG1 and run my 727 with the same harness, I just have to use 2 different computers, and I can use the one I have for the NAG1. There will be $6-700 extra cost for another computer and 727 adapters etc, but it worth it to me. The big issue, headers for NAG1 and T-Bars is not solved yet. No one makes them. I will get the TTI's that fits the 727/T-Bars and hopefully I can modify the passengers side later to fit the NAG1 (with a right side starter), what I can tell the driver side header will fit from the 727, but I'm not 100% on that.

 

[soundcontrol]

Slight change in plans, I'm skipping the 727 and go straight to the NAG1. Waiting for parts now.

 

[Darius]

Dude, read through my build thread for ideas and solutions for this swap.
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?1121-B-Body-stiffening

I am not aware of ANY other after market transmission controller that will work without axle speed sensors than the PCS TCM
WHEN you need help with the programming on that unit( and you WILL need it) contact Russell Drake at www.soundgermanautomotive.com.

Take a good look at how we did the transmission cross member and the exhaust system. NO header will fit this application on the starter (passenger side). You might get better flow if you "ported" the exhaust manifolds but I don't see any advantage worth the effort to using headers of any kind vs the set up I have unless you are racing and 1/10th of seconds are your goal.

I can say it was and is worth all the hassle I went through, just hoping to save anyone else some of the grief and cost via MY experience!

Also, be careful with the pink "thingy" in the gear shift assembly. They are known to break and leave you in park! Billet Technologies was making billet aluminum replacements a while back and I installed one ($45 at that time). I do not know if they are still making them but you might check it out while you have the thing all apart.

 

[Burns69RT]

I fit a Nag1 in a 73 cuda with modifications but we had a set of TTI long tube headers and they fit perfectly fine. I custom built the trans crossmember. But that was simple.

 

[soundcontrol]

Darius, very nice build! I'm not using an aftermarket controller though, using all the stock boxes (4) from a 2006 SRT Charger. Hotwire is making the harness and programming. Have a few questions, what is the reason to replace the stock rubber damper with aluminum for the driveshaft? And how do I determine the correct height of the engine/tranny (in the back while making a new tranny mount), with the rear axle, so the driveshaft gets a correct angle there?
I have 2 shifters, gonna take one apart (and I'll probably break it) and try to see how the electronic parts work, maybe I can somehow mont the electonics in my stock floor shifter. If not I have the other one to use.

Burns69RT, I ordered TTI's for 727 with the hope that I can modify the passenger side to fit, if not I have to build my own, it's possible, mmissile did it in his thread, very nice headers. Complicated to do though. But if I cut the TTI's down, at least I have a starting point.

 

[Darius]

I realized you are doing this in an E body now. I'm sure there are big differences in the clearance areas. I will still be curious about the TCM programming however. We found plenty of people/places that can deal with the engine management programming but NO ONE who could do the NAG1 transmission programming without the tone rings and speed sensors from the original car. The Charger donor car has a two piece drive shaft with no slip yoke. This was our solution to get a one piece drive shaft connected in the traditional way with the 8 3/4 rear end.
I cannot answer the engine/transmission/rearend angle question. Dean did that when there was no one around so he could concentrate and get it right. I want to say we started with a 2 degree down angle at the pinion and once we got it running we adjusted that but I don't recall if it was more or less angle. At any rate, it will probably be different in an E body.

 

[soundcontrol]

Yes, the NAG1 fit well in the e-body, need to make some room for the oil stick tube, thats about it. And the crossmember of course. I was just wondering about the choise of aluminum instead of the stock Charger rubber, if that had something to do with the tone ring mounting...

 

[Darius]

It just provided a better mount for the slip yoke. There was some vibration so when we took the drive line in to get balanced dude showed us this new (since we did the initial swap) mount piece for the slip yoke. NO vibration now!

 

[soundcontrol]

Aha, got it. But where is your tonewheel and speed sensors?

 

[Darius]

The tone ring is just in front of that assembly, you can just see the edge of it.

 

[soundcontrol]

My stuff from Hotwire arrived today. Looks great, very nice work from Chris at Hotwire Auto!

 

[soundcontrol]

Not much progress on the swap, waiting for parts. Got the car up in a rotisserie and found some funky metalwork I gotta fix, I'm sure I'll find more when I get the undercoating off.

 

[soundcontrol]

Got some more parts, other than that, not much action in the garage lately, working too much.

 

[soundcontrol]

I finally got started on my Hemi/NAG1 setup, took the tranny off, I have a set of TTI headers thats made for the NAG1/727. I suspected they will fit fine on the driver side but not on the passenger side with the starter, and that was correct. Now, just thinking out loud here, how hard would it be to switch the starter to the driver side? To make an alu flange with the boltholes, cut out the necessary material and weld it in. There is lots of space there for the starter. My original idea was to cut the TTI's on the passenger side and route the pipes differently. Its a difficult job, and I have to send them in to redo the ceramic coating after, maybe moving the starter is easier, if possible. I Googled and tranny cases can be welded. Any thoughts?

 

[SGA]

You can get the Jeep bellhousing and swap that. It has the starter on the other side. Just pop the front cover off the transmission and get the correct starter.

 

[soundcontrol]

Really! I did not know that, that would be great, so I don't have to make new headers, or go thru the trouble of modifying the bellhousing. I looked on e-bay and found a few but only for 6-cyl, non for Hemi. I will investigate this further. Thank you!

 

[soundcontrol]

I got the Jeep bellhousing, a Jeep starter and it seems to fit great with my TTI headers made for the 6.1 with a 727 and T-Bars, so thanks a bunch, SGA for suggesting that!
Other than that not much happening on the swap, just got the body back from blasting/2k epoxy. Next step is welding in fender braces and lower radiator support, changing the trunk floor and repair a few minor areas that showed up with rust after blasting.

 

[Rusty24]

Excited to see if the jeep bellhousing works out. Be sure to post updates that will be a life saver. Have you figured out what to do with nag1 yet? SGA would you be able to post about how all that works or do we have to get into contact with you?