Ammeter short wire on non-red post

[Bick]

So I’m preparing to install a rallye gauge cluster in my 72 charger that came with my car when I purchased it along with boxes of misc parts that the previous owner was collecting for years prior to selling the project to me. The gauge cluster has been gone through and the tach has been marked ‘tested’ so I’m assuming everything is in working order. I am planning to do the ammeter wiring upgrade that involves running parallel wires with fusible links from the starter solenoid and coil as outlined in several notable posts on this site BUT I have a mystery wire…..it looks 100% factory…..that I’m 99% sure doesn’t belong (at least not once I’ve completed the upgrade) but want to see if anyone knows why it is loosely attached to my non-red ammeter post. It has a factory ring terminal on one end which matches the ring terminals on the wiring harness and a female spade connector on the other…..total length of maybe 8-10 inches. I am planning to attach a photo but as I’m a newbie to this posting stuff, I may stumble a bit before getting it up so please bare with me.
Honestly, I just want to be sure a voltmeter upgrade wasn’t done or planned and I’m going to wreck a perfect looking gauge when I connect the battery

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Powers the clock on some versions of the Rallye cluster, it's factory and connected to the correct terminal. If the factory clock has been replaced with a factory tach, you can omit the wire. All loads need to be on the alternator side of the ammeter(black wire). Converting to a voltmeter is not an upgrade.

 

[Bick]

Thank you! I was thinking in the wrong direction, never that is was a power for something else but now it totally makes sense! I misspoke when I said the voltmeter was an upgrade…..

 

[Kern Dog]

Converting to a voltmeter is not an upgrade.

Uhh, yeah it is.
If the system was so great, they'd still be using it.
It worked for the short life span that the cars were expected to serve. Get them past that and their reliability drops off. YOU are one of two people that push for keeping the ammeter ....you are swimming against the tide on this one.

 

[RJRENTON]

Uhh, yeah it is.
If the system was so great, they'd still be using it.
It worked for the short life span that the cars were expected to serve. Get them past that and their reliability drops off. YOU are one of two people that push for keeping the ammeter ....you are swimming against the tide on this one.

View attachment 1130922

I guess there are two (?) points to this subject.......authenticity vs practicality or perhaps wanting to be like everyone else (based on the "my buddy rule") or leaving as is. Which method is better (best ?)......the choice is an individual determination....based on the ramblings of a certain individual (who shall remain nameless) using the "guess and by golly" methods and rather than sound engineering principles.......
BOB RENTON

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Uhh, yeah it is.
If the system was so great, they'd still be using it.
It worked for the short life span that the cars were expected to serve. Get them past that and their reliability drops off. YOU are one of two people that push for keeping the ammeter ....you are swimming against the tide on this one.

That’s bullsh*t, any serious D.C circuit/battery monitoring involves ammeters. Removing the information provided by an ammeter and replacing it with the little information a voltmeter can provide is not an upgrade. There is nothing short-lived or unreliable about these passenger car ammeters, they are robustly constructed and will last indefinitely with minimal common sense electrical maintenance, as to be expected with any other system on a 50-year-old car. If they didn’t cost automakers more to incorporate, they’d have been around much longer.

I haven’t pushed the use of anything here, I have countered, using facts, a lot of misinformation about these ammeters posted here from time to time, misinformation just like this.

I do agree, the on-going battle against ignorance anywhere can be an on-going swim against the current, pun intended. Been fighting this particular battle on and off since my time at the dealers when these cars were new.

 

[Kern Dog]

 

[RJRENTON]

That’s bullsh*t, any serious D.C circuit/battery monitoring involves ammeters. Removing the information provided by an ammeter and replacing it with the little information a voltmeter can provide is not an upgrade. There is nothing short-lived or unreliable about these passenger car ammeters, they are robustly constructed and will last indefinitely with minimal common sense electrical maintenance, as to be expected with any other system on a 50-year-old car. If they didn’t cost automakers more to incorporate, they’d have been around much longer.

I haven’t pushed the use of anything here, I have countered, using facts, a lot of misinformation about these ammeters posted here from time to time, misinformation just like this.

I do agree, the on-going battle against ignorance anywhere can be an on-going swim against the current, pun intended. Been fighting this particular battle on and off since my time at the dealers when these cars were new.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE with your statments.....its sad that uneducated continue to expound on something they know nothing about.
BOB RENTON

 

[Crackedback]

So an ammeter has never grounded to an instrument cluster? Got it.

As many know, the ammeter isn't the only consideration in the system and what you want to do to correct the weak spots.

Pick whatever method you want to run the charging system. Run with it. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

 

[Kern Dog]

It isn't just the ammeter that is the problem but the solution fixes what is.
The bulkhead terminals and the corrosion that forms between them is a huge contributor. Eliminating the ammeter and using a voltmeter is safer because now you don't have charging current flowing through "seasoned" wires.
Only an engineer that thinks he is so ******* smart would argue it.
Only an arrogant engineer would look at a problem and stick to his guns because the math supports it.....even though real evidence is right in front of them.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

So an ammeter has never grounded to an instrument cluster? Got it.

As many know, the ammeter isn't the only consideration in the system and what you want to do to correct the weak spots.

Pick whatever method you want to run the charging system. Run with it. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

Shorting ammeter studs to the cluster frame are the result of failed mounting insulators not the failure of the ammeter. The insulators don’t just deteriorate without outside influence. Insulator failures are the result of poor maintenance/lack of any maintenance or incorrect previous servicing procedures. Loose mounting nuts and/or over-tightened mounting nuts (crushing the fiber insulator leading to further loosen the connections) lead to high resistance. The resulting heat will lead to further insulator damage. These insulators center the studs through the frame mounting holes, insulator goes away, contact with frame is possible and has happened, no question. That said, many thousands Chrysler products have lived a long full life and went their scrapyard graves without ever experiencing the feared and mystical “spontaneous combusting ammeter” syndrome. And still many original ammeter equipped Mopars survive today having never been abused with added loads at the battery and knuckleheads cranking down on the stud nuts.

Yes, by all means, address the bulkhead connection design weakness first, by far the weakest link in the original design, has been since very early on.

 

[RJRENTON]

It isn't just the ammeter that is the problem but the solution fixes what is.
The bulkhead terminals and the corrosion that forms between them is a huge contributor. Eliminating the ammeter and using a voltmeter is safer because now you don't have charging current flowing through "seasoned" wires.
Only an engineer that thinks he is so ******* smart would argue it.
Only an arrogant engineer would look at a problem and stick to his guns because the math supports it.....even though real evidence is right in front of them.

Is there a real difference between the first statment: "Only an engineer that thinks he is so ******* smart would argue it".....OR... the second statment: "Only an arrogant engineer would look at a problem and stick to his guns because the math supports it.....even though real evidence is right in front of them"? Please explain. BTW....the use of a crude expletive is lame....there are literally 100s of words to better express your thoughts...perhaps, a thesaurus may be an excellent investment......
BOB RENTON

 

[Kern Dog]

I have dealt with engineers in construction that are arrogant and condescending. They act like their degree exempts them from simple, common sense solutions.
If you combine arrogance and education, it can be a good combination OR a very bad one. When one thinks that they are above others or infallible, they are closed off from learning.
Regarding the topic at hand....
IF all conditions are optimal, all connections are tight and dry and the loads imparted on the system are within the design limits, the stock system seems to hold up well.
When will those planets ever align? My thoughts are that they will not. Age and heat take their toll. People modify their harnesses by adding accessories. These electrical systems have wiring that is barely capable in stock form when new. You want to risk a fire? Go ahead.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

if owners and "techs" didn't conect all added accesories to the batt post along the years, ammeters would have last long way longer. Aside more stuff involved ( bigger batts keeping same stock alt, etc... ) I won't discuss here... already discussed in dozen of threads

 

[RJRENTON]

I have dealt with engineers in construction that are arrogant and condescending. They act like their degree exempts them from simple, common sense solutions.
If you combine arrogance and education, it can be a good combination OR a very bad one. When one thinks that they are above others or infallible, they are closed off from learning.
Regarding the topic at hand....
IF all conditions are optimal, all connections are tight and dry and the loads imparted on the system are within the design limits, the stock system seems to hold up well.
When will those planets ever align? My thoughts are that they will not. Age and heat take their toll. People modify their harnesses by adding accessories. These electrical systems have wiring that is barely capable in stock form when new. You want to risk a fire? Go ahead.

Judging by your first paragraph, apparently the person you interfaced with, did not sgree with your evaluation of the given situation, resulting in your personal animosity toward the person involved. In most situations, there are several solutions to a problem or at the very least, least two ways: your way or the other person's way. Experience is one factor, but not the overwhelming factor. Decisions are based on many factors: cost, expediency, safety, availability of manpower, availability of repair parts, and experience, but not necessarily in that order. Every situation is unique and must be evaluated individually. Perhaps this premise disagrees with your philosophy....just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON