Another synthetic oil question - heard a conflicting comment

[RemCharger]

Good points, thanks.

R413 - right, that's why I went with the 15w-50 in addition to the ZDDP levels.

Slepr - I usually drive my car every day. Usually about 10-20 miles, sometimes 60 just depends.

69Bee - here's the link to Mobil 1's website. On the right in blue is a link to a pdf with their zinc levels. It says the standard 15W-50 has 1320ppm. And I'm kinda with you on his bearing issue.

Rem - the main reason I like synthetics is the temperature threshold. It seems to be far higher than conventional oils unless I'm missing something.

And sorry guys, i didn't mean to start up another this vs. that oil thread but I'm just not understanding that if the syn oil is the same weight as conventional, has a good enough ZDDP level, the rating exceeds SE and SF specs, is slipperier, and has a higher temp threshold, what is not good about using it? Not trying to be a smartass, just trying to understand.

Honestly, I have no issue with conventional oil except the "breakdown" temperature point which is the main reason i went to syn oil. This engine sees sustained speeds of 70 -75 on the highway @ 3k + rpms (sometimes more if a German car f&*cks with me) and i just want to use what will keep it alive and lasting. And I've used VR1 in the past a few times and liked it. If it will provide the same level of thermal protection and lubrication that syn oil does, heck, I'm on board.

Thanks,
Mikey

Ok let's delve a litter deeper in your thermal concerns.
What temp is your oil currently running at on the highway.

 

[Kern Dog]

Never use additives in the oil you’re just diluting the chemistry that it was designed with.

There is common sense merit to this sentiment.
As consumers, we don't know the complex chemistry that goes into a bottle of motor oil, nor do we know how compatible any additive might be with it.
It sure makes more sense to either use an oil that already has an adequate additive package in it or a pour in additive that has been approved for use in the oil that you are using.
Remember that "GM Oil Supplement" ?
That stuff was supposed to be really good.

 

[Darter6]

I have used Mobil 1 Full Synthetic

15-50 W. I used it in my 2003 Ram diesel. Oh my !!! that's not diesel oil. Sold it in 2010 to a fellow racer that still has it. Going on 250K miles.
How can it be ??? To the original poster. You'll be fine. We all change oil sooner in our stuff way more than normal people. Yes I'm not normal.

 

[coloradodave]

There is common sense merit to this sentiment.
As consumers, we don't know the complex chemistry that goes into a bottle of motor oil, nor do we know how compatible any additive might be with it.
It sure makes more sense to either use an oil that already has an adequate additive package in it or a pour in additive that has been approved for use in the oil that you are using.
Remember that "GM Oil Supplement" ?
That stuff was supposed to be really good.

Kern, Are you referring to the GM Whale Oil Differential Additive? I used to add that to my 4 speeds and rear-ends. If you put that on a screwdriver shank you couldn't hold on to it. It'd slide right through your fingers, no matter how tight you tried to hold it...

 

[Kern Dog]

I was referring to this stuff:

If that wasn't enough, there was this....

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Your neighbor is incorrect. Here’s why…

Oil is a mixture of “hydrcarbon chains”

Conventional oil has a WIDE range of hydrocarbon chains….thousands of different ones.

Conventional oil comes out of the ground and is refined from “crude”, comes from nature and comes out of the ground.

Some of the hydrocarbon chains work better than others.

Synthetic oil is man-made from natural gas. The hydrocarbon chains are built.

Because synthetic oil is man-made, you can build only the hydrocarbon chains you want…..the best ones and none of the “so-so” hydrocarbon chains. So, synthetic oil is kinda sorta “purer”

Either will work in your engine just fine. Synthetic oil lasts longer (it’s only the “good” hydrocarbon chains and none of the “so-so” hydrocarbon n chains that break down faster)

 

[33 IMP]

I was referring to this stuff:

View attachment 2045382

If that wasn't enough, there was this....

View attachment 2045383

Aren't those just STP in a GM can?

 

[copper67sat]

Your neighbor is incorrect. Here’s why…

Oil is a mixture of “hydrcarbon chains”

Conventional oil has a WIDE range of hydrocarbon chains….thousands of different ones.

Conventional oil comes out of the ground and is refined from “crude”, comes from nature and comes out of the ground.

Some of the hydrocarbon chains work better than others.

Synthetic oil is man-made from natural gas. The hydrocarbon chains are built.

Because synthetic oil is man-made, you can build only the hydrocarbon chains you want…..the best ones and none of the “so-so” hydrocarbon chains. So, synthetic oil is kinda sorta “purer”

Either will work in your engine just fine. Synthetic oil lasts longer (it’s only the “good” hydrocarbon chains and none of the “so-so” hydrocarbon n chains that break down faster)

I'm not an oil or fuel expert but we work with advanced aviation fuels and often gather data on how they perform in our engines under extreme conditions. We originally used JP-7, which is what they used in the SR-71, because it was the most capable jet fuel available at the time. It is a special blend of natural crude oils with additives. It has tight specifications when compared to standard jet fuels like Jet-A or JP-8 so it's properties were pretty consistent batch-to-batch. No one makes it anymore so we switched to JP-10 which is a single-molecule synthetic fuel and is exactly the same every batch.

Applying that logic to motor oil - either will work just fine in your engine. Synthetic may be more consistent but conventional oil will be within an acceptable range. Just get the right spec oil and you'll probably be fine.

 

[33 IMP]

O.P., just keep the oil in it, certainly nothing wrong with Synthetic, unless you are using the water-thin 0-20 stuff. It apparently has the zinc you need. Your 15-50 is fine.
I use synthetic in the new cars that require it, diesel oil (I believe semi-sythetic, whatever the hell that means) in my diesel truck and pickup, and a witches brew of diesel oil, and ridiculously heavy ancient racing oil in the street/strip cars. The zinc content of the old racing oil is huge.
Picked up four gallons of diesel 15-40 on sale at Sam's, just the other day. It's barely enough to do a change on my diesel truck.

 

[69conv]

Happened to me. Start at post 44
Help me sort my combo

 

[R413]

Ok let's delve a litter deeper in your thermal concerns.
What temp is your oil currently running at on the highway.

@MikeyM
Yes exactly, so you must be running an oil temperarure gauge to know if you are in danger of going past the oils temp limits, Right?

 

[Dennis H]

Only the Hellcat has an oil temp gauge. Runs around 214 IIRC. Never ever knew the oil temp in the old car. Only the pressure.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Whole Planet (mostly) uses synthetic. Must be a reason. Amsoil Z Rod 10-30. Synthetic. High Zinc. 440. Purrs for a tired old dog. Annual due to low miles used.

Amsoil Z-Rod 10-40 with the added zinc in my 451. Turned onto Amsoil by Dennis. So far so good, but miles on engine is still under 10k.

 

[Geoff 2]

I run syn oil in my GTO, have done for 30 yrs, driven weekly. Syn oil will withstand higher operating temps than mineral oil, so I use it as a safeguard. I always use the best oil I can to get the most protection I can .....& that is syn oil.

 

[Dan64]

No way that that synthetic oil took out your neighbors bearings, it was something else other than that. That being said some will say to not use synthetic oil for the first few thousand miles of break -in but that's more about seating rings and nothing to do with bearings and even that is disputed by some. I use Brad Penn, call Penn Grade now, it's a blend.

 

[Doorkicker]

Zinc (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate) is specifically added to oil to - primarily - act as an anti-wear agent under certain conditions. In short, ZDDP reacts to extremely high pressure that reaches levels that can or potentially break surface tension of the oil film - film strength. As a result, ZDDP basically floats around, but under high pressure - such as with flat tappets - it then acts virtually as a sacrificial material so that the metal of the cam/lifter are protected. Again, this is the "last level of defense" for when your oil film struggles, which can happen during break-in, high-heat operations, and when oil starts to breakdown or becomes contaminated. As this relates to oil weight, Zinc become critically important with thinner weights because there is a natural reduction of film strength... which is less of an issue with synthetics.

 

[Strato58]

Yes but you only need 800-900 ZDDP because it breaks down slowly. In other words more is only required if you do very long milage between oil changes. 800-900 is more than adequate and you need better film strength oil. If your changing your oil every 1000 miles or so its a moot point.

 

[Dennis H]

10-30.

 

[MikeyM]

I run syn oil in my GTO, have done for 30 yrs, driven weekly. Syn oil will withstand higher operating temps than mineral oil, so I use it as a safeguard. I always use the best oil I can to get the most protection I can .....& that is syn oil.

^^This^^ is primarily why I switched to syn years ago and the hydrocarbon chains being the same size... slipperier. Resulting in less friction.

Rem and R413, I don't have an oil temp gauge (yet) so I would imagine it runs around 200-220ish degrees as Dennis mentioned. I may be way off here but my thinking is that if the coolant temp rises above 210ish, say on a long drive in the desert, instead of like 190 or so, then hypothetically oil temp would rise, as well, correct? If so, that would mean oil temp would rise to around 235-240* which is pretty close to the break down temp with not much room to go, right? About 250is degrees at the lowest? Where syn oil still has quite a ways to go which, to me, just means it will protect at higher temps. So that and the improved lubrication I guess.

Anyway, hope I didn't babble too much, just my car OCD trying to use the best stuff for longevity.

Mikey

 

[WileE]

Let's simplify. I got old cars. I got new cars. Old cars = conventional oil. New cars = synthetic oil. Everybody's happy.