Borgeson steering box

[stushug]

I've been looking at the Borgeson steering box. My OE steering box had been rebuilt around 2005 and re-installed when the car was restored in 2009. If I remember correctly, it was rebuilt by Firm Feel with one step up in firmness from stock. A little over 3000 miles later and the steering is loose as all hell and leaking again. The car is all over the road at every speed. Way too long a time to send the box back under any warranty, so I am exploring options. Everything in the suspension and front end was brand new in 2009. Has anyone installed the Borgeson on a 68 R/T? How is their quality compared to OE? I'm assuming it HAS to be better. My car has power steering already. Is there much to do to install their box? How do I know if I have the 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 sector shaft, and should I get the kit or stick with my OE pump and just buy the box?

 

[ckessel]

You'll find plenty of feedback on this. For what size the shaft is, get some calipers and measure it between the pitman arm and the box. Or pull the arm off and measure. With the cost of freight these days, especially if it's heavy, if you give the wrong size of shaft you'll be the one paying the freight both ways. Not the vendor. I highly recommend you order from Peter at BAC. He is one of the sponsors over on the right hand side of the forum page. He'll hook you up with EVERYTHING you need for the swap. Unlike Summit etc.

 

[JR_Charger]

What motor did you car originally come with?

Kern Dog has a thread on here about the install he did in his 1970 Charger.

The install on my 72 was fairly easy, but I had the torsion bars, all the steering components, and the master cylinder off the car.

If you have to crawl under the car and hold the steering box on with one hand while wrenching with the other, the box is still heavy and awkward to work with in that position. The factory box is a giant by comparison though.

 

[stushug]

What motor did you car originally come with?

Kern Dog has a thread on here about the install he did in his 1970 Charger.

The install on my 72 was fairly easy, but I had the torsion bars, all the steering components, and the master cylinder off the car.

If you have to crawl under the car and hold the steering box on with one hand while wrenching with the other, the box is still heavy and awkward to work with in that position. The factory box is a giant by comparison though.

The car is numbers matching everything. It has the 440HP engine Vin code L.

 

[pnora]

I doubt all the problems are in the box. Leak maybe. When was it aligned and do you have a print out.

 

[Kern Dog]

What motor did you car originally come with?

Kern Dog has a thread on here about the install he did in his 1970 Charger.

The install on my 72 was fairly easy, but I had the torsion bars, all the steering components, and the master cylinder off the car.

If you have to crawl under the car and hold the steering box on with one hand while wrenching with the other, the box is still heavy and awkward to work with in that position. The factory box is a giant by comparison though.

Read THIS:

Swapping a Borgeson steering box in a 1970 Charger

 

[Mopar Hunter]

Read THIS:

Swapping a Borgeson steering box in a 1970 Charger

I was just getting ready to post your thread here until I saw this.

 

[stushug]

Read THIS:

Swapping a Borgeson steering box in a 1970 Charger

Someone else had already mentioned your thread, I've been reading it. Thanks!

 

[stushug]

I doubt all the problems are in the box. Leak maybe. When was it aligned and do you have a print out.

It was aligned when the car was put back together in 2009. Everything was brand new at the time and the steering was fine then. I don't have the printout. The box is seeping again, looks like it has been for a while. There's only about 3k on the car since the restoration.

 

[bobsgtx]

Don't take offense to what I am going to say. I'm just assuming. From what you have said i assume someone other than you did the work. If I was in your situation I would reach out to members here and other classic car enthusiast to find a good alignment shop/person in your area. Other than the leak they should check the front suspension and steering box for looseness and align to modern standards. I would do this before replacing parts that may or not fix the problem. Brand new doesn't mean much anymore.

 

[JR_Charger]

I thought I'd read that the 1 1/8" shaft was small block and the 1 1/4" was big block, at least until later years when 1 1/8" may have been phased out. Do you have the means to measure the output shaft, as ckessel suggested? My guess is that you have the 1 1/4" - what would they use the bigger shaft on, if not a 440 R/T? Well, it could have been limited to the C-body, like the bigger end links. So you'll have to measure it to be sure.

A question for the forum - could the 1 1/4" be used in a 1 1/8" car, if the 1 1/8" pitman arm is swapped out for a 1 1/4" pitman arm?

 

[stushug]

Don't take offense to what I am going to say. I'm just assuming. From what you have said i assume someone other than you did the work. If I was in your situation I would reach out to members here and other classic car enthusiast to find a good alignment shop/person in your area. Other than the leak they should check the front suspension and steering box for looseness and align to modern standards. I would do this before replacing parts that may or not fix the problem. Brand new doesn't mean much anymore.

I never take offense unless a poster is blatantly rude. You're correct. I have always done most of my own work other than the restoration of this car. The leaking, loose steering box was one of the things addressed when the car was restored. I did not do any of the final assembly on this car, but it was done by a high quality restoration shop, and everything was excellent when I got the car back. Over time and just a few thousand miles of limited driving the steering has gotten progressively more loose and it's no fun to drive it like it is now.

 

[Sixpactogo]

i installed the Borgeson in my 68 Charger back in 2014. IMO, it is the cats meow. I love it. I ordered it from Peter at Bergman Auto Craft. My Charger had the small pitman. (1 1/8") I believe the larger pitman arm came into play in around 1972. Peter would have that info for you. I also bought the direct fit coupler from them along with a custom hose set for my application since I am using a newer style PS pump.
You said your steering has gotten loose....Have you verified the mounting bolts are still tight? If someone else installed it, it could be they didn't tighten the bolts properly. Just a guess.

 

[ckessel]

If you are wondering why I don't have any feedback on the box, it's because it's not in use yet other than being on the k-frame. I did buy it from Peter though for the reasons I stated.

 

[Kern Dog]

I never take offense unless a poster is blatantly rude. You're correct. I have always done most of my own work other than the restoration of this car. The leaking, loose steering box was one of the things addressed when the car was restored. I did not do any of the final assembly on this car, but it was done by a high quality restoration shop, and everything was excellent when I got the car back. Over time and just a few thousand miles of limited driving the steering has gotten progressively more loose and it's no fun to drive it like it is now.

My Firm Feel steering unit loosened up over time but most of the slop was able to be adjusted out. The mounting bolts also loosened up a few times despite the use of new bolts and Locktite.
It did get to the point where even with the steering box adjusted to just short of binding, the on center slop was still there. This was over a period of 17 years of somewhat limited driving. I tightened up the adjustment screw maybe 3 or 4 times in that time and figured that I was probably at the end of the adjustment range.
The Borgeson kit from Peter Bergman is a good setup. He includes no instructions....instead you're instructed to download them from his website. I'd prefer that they'd be included with the kit. When I embark on a new upgrade or major change, I like to start a thread here to chronicle it for others as well as myself. Then, I have a place where I can go back and read what I did before to apply to other projects.

 

[stushug]

I just spoke with Peter at Bergman. I ordered the Master kit with the box and pump, and everything needed to do the install. He seemed like and really straightforward guy and he knows his stuff. Next comes the hard part, the actual work!

 

[Sixpactogo]

I think you will be happy with it once you get over the sticker shock. They are spendy for sure. I don't know if they altered the single tab they welded on but mine seemed to not be in line with the column and was angled out some. I spoke with Peter about it back in 2014 and he said it should be fine and the coupler would be able to handle the angle difference but I added a 1/4" washer to put everything in line. Here is a pic, green arrow showing the shim.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

KD - did you need to shim yours like Sixpactogo shows above?

I've been wanting to install a Borgeson box since 2012 but had held off because one of my friends was an early user and had mounting problems. I spoke with Borgeson about it and they said they used to weld a mounting tab to the box, but now the newest version 3 design has that mount in a different spot so the issue has been resolved. I'm glad I waited for them to sort out the gremlins...

I didn't know an external plate cooler for the pump was recommended. I thought it was just a nice to have. I learned something else new today!

 

[stushug]

KD - did you need to shim yours like Sixpactogo shows above?

I've been wanting to install a Borgeson box since 2012 but had held off because one of my friends was an early user and had mounting problems. I spoke with Borgeson about it and they said they used to weld a mounting tab to the box, but now the newest version 3 design has that mount in a different spot so the issue has been resolved. I'm glad I waited for them to sort out the gremlins...

I didn't know an external plate cooler for the pump was recommended. I thought it was just a nice to have. I learned something else new today!

I spoke with Peter Bergman today and he claimed that the cooler is not necessary, but one certainly won't hurt. He does sell a nice one though for $50, so he told me. He also told me he ports the Borgeson boxes before he sends them out so they flow much better. There were other guys on here that said a filter is also needed, but he told me he's never used one in 30 years.

 

[Sixpactogo]

I spoke with Peter Bergman today and he claimed that the cooler is not necessary, but one certainly won't hurt. He does sell a nice one though for $50, so he told me. There were other guys on here that said a filter is also needed, but he told me he's never used one in 30 years.

No cooler or filter on my setup either but I have a newer pump. (I think 2014 Jeep but not sure)
I have drivin my car close to 15K miles since I finished it in 2015. No issues with heat or leaks. I do remember something about people having problems with mixing vintage pumps with the Borgeson gear but cannot recall what the problem was. Here is a pic of my pump. Only holds about a pint of fluid or less.