Borgeson steering box

[stushug]

From what I recall, The steering column center shaft was redesigned for the 1967 year. It became a hollow tube within a tube that would collapse on impact to prevent a Shish-K-Bob. When these columns were built, the length was set with the tube within a tube and hot plastic was injected into a channel to keep the two tubes connected but still able to collapse. Over the years, the plastic can get brittle and allow the tubes to move around a bit.
I wrote about this in my Borgeson installation thread. Somehow when I pulled the column out, I pressed the coupler rearward a bit and the tube within a tube compressed. I simply tapped the shaft back out to the point where it all fit together correctly and called it good.
Regarding the centering of the steering box, I simply put a line on the splines and kept it still as I slid the coupler on the input shaft.

Were you able to tap the shaft back out while the column was in the car? I assume if you did, you had to remove the steering wheel and work from that end. Correct?

 

[Kern Dog]

The steering column was removed to make the job easier. Sometimes I have left things in place, thinking that removal and reinstallation would add time to the job BUT leaving it in place left an obstacle to work around that really sucked.
Clearing a path sometimes seems like extra work but I have learned that the more access that you have, the easier the job will be.
I left the steering wheel on the column.

I believe this is the length of the column in my other Charger. I covered this in the thread that I posted. I don't recall the specifics.

 

[stushug]

As Sixpactogo noted earlier, my coupler had slid closer to the firewall. Even after I slid it back the column was too short. The coupler was just seated as it should be on the input shaft of the steering box, but the cover and gasket had come off and the shoes were sticking out about an 1/8". I removed the column again because I've found it impossible to install that retaining cap on the coupler while it's in the car. I pulled the shaft out about three inches, that should give me plenty of room to maneuver when I put it back in the car. I made a reference mark where the shaft was so I'd know how far out I pulled it. I also figured out how the floor plate is oriented, I'm posting a picture for future reference in case someone else forgets how it goes.

 

[Sixpactogo]

As Sixpactogo noted earlier, my coupler had slid closer to the firewall. Even after I slid it back the column was too short. The coupler was just seated as it should be on the input shaft of the steering box, but the cover and gasket had come off and the shoes were sticking out about an 1/8". I removed the column again because I've found it impossible to install that retaining cap on the coupler while it's in the car. I pulled the shaft out about three inches, that should give me plenty of room to maneuver when I put it back in the car. I made a reference mark where the shaft was so I'd know how far out I pulled it. I also figured out how the floor plate is oriented, I'm posting a picture for future reference in case someone else forgets how it goes.

View attachment 1442053

As Sixpactogo noted earlier, my coupler had slid closer to the firewall. Even after I slid it back the column was too short. The coupler was just seated as it should be on the input shaft of the steering box, but the cover and gasket had come off and the shoes were sticking out about an 1/8". I removed the column again because I've found it impossible to install that retaining cap on the coupler while it's in the car. I pulled the shaft out about three inches, that should give me plenty of room to maneuver when I put it back in the car. I made a reference mark where the shaft was so I'd know how far out I pulled it. I also figured out how the floor plate is oriented, I'm posting a picture for future reference in case someone else forgets how it goes.

View attachment 1442053

View attachment 1442054

As long as you have the column out, you may want to fix it properly. You would need to remove the shaft and then you can take it apart to fix those plastic pins that were put in from the factory for collision purposes. If I remember correctly, there are two somewhere around 1/16" plastic pins that are designed to break off and collapse the shaft in a crash. The bottom shaft slides into the hollow upper shaft. Mine were not broken so I left it alone but yours somehow got sheared off.

 

[Kern Dog]

Why bother to "repair" it? What gains do you expect? I left mine with the plastic pieces broken and there are no rattles or vibrations on either car. I'm sure that unbeknownst to me, I've driven several cars that had broken plastic pins and the cars operated normally.
The column bolts to the underside of the dash. The coupler attaches to the steering box and is retained by a roll pin or the set screw in the case of the Bergman hybrid coupler. They will not pull apart.

 

[Sixpactogo]

Why bother to "repair" it? What gains do you expect? I left mine with the plastic pieces broken and there are no rattles or vibrations on either car. I'm sure that unbeknownst to me, I've driven several cars that had broken plastic pins and the cars operated normally.
The column bolts to the underside of the dash. The coupler attaches to the steering box and is retained by a roll pin or the set screw in the case of the Bergman hybrid coupler. They will not pull apart.

My thought was since those pins are no longer holding anything, could the lower shaft turn inside the upper shaft and mess up your steering control or if the lower shaft could creep up inside the upper and pull itself out of the coupler? Maybe it is not a concern but I figured the pins were there for a good reason.

 

[Kern Dog]

I suspect that they were there to maintain the proper length of the shaft. If it were a safety concern, surely some lawsuits would have been filed due to failures.
I’ve never heard of any.
This is one of those things that is difficult to explain without pictures or having it right in front of you.
A buddy converted to manual steering and simply busted the plastic pins and extended the shaft. There is enough overlap to allow it. He had no problems with his column.

 

[stushug]

I can't believe I'm typing this, but the column is back in and coupled to the input of the steering box. I hope I centered the box so the steering will be correct, I followed the directions. Next I have to plumb the hoses between the pump and the box and put back the belts. Then I can go back to installing the new oil pump, which is what set me off into this journey of misery! One step at a time, and sooner or later I'll be finished.

 

[66 Sat]

My thought was since those pins are no longer holding anything, could the lower shaft turn inside the upper shaft and mess up your steering control or if the lower shaft could creep up inside the upper and pull itself out of the coupler? Maybe it is not a concern but I figured the pins were there for a good reason.

Absolutely the lower shaft can creep up inside the upper and pull itself out of the coupler!
It happened to my 69 Barracuda in the late nineties. One day driving to work I noticed the steering wheel had some up and down movement. When I parked I was turning the wheel from side to side to see what was going on and suddenly the wheel just spun around with no resistance. I was so lucky that day!

Once I'd worked out what had happened and pulled the column back down, I put a hose clamp on the lower column where it slides up into the upper to stop it ever happening again. I just pinched it up so it would still slide in a crash.

I suspect it had started to move a few months earlier on the rough roads driving through the Sierra Nevada mountains from Tonopah to Sacramento - we were hitting some big potholes and I think the shock was enough to jerk the column up.

 

[Kern Dog]

Sometimes when I embark on something new, in my head I make it out to be much more complicated than it is.
When I replaced the front stub on Jigsaw, @eldubb440 was there to guide me though it.

I was nervous and unsure....I expected to encounter a LOT of obstacles.
Your steering box project reminds me of how I can be with new things.

 

[Kern Dog]

Absolutely the lower shaft can creep up inside the upper and pull itself out of the coupler!
It happened to my 69 Barracuda in the late nineties. One day driving to work I noticed the steering wheel had some up and down movement. When I parked I was turning the wheel from side to side to see what was going on and suddenly the wheel just spun around with no resistance. I was so lucky that day!

Once I'd worked out what had happened and pulled the column back down, I put a hose clamp on the lower column where it slides up into the upper to stop it ever happening again. I just pinched it up so it would still slide in a crash.

I suspect it had started to move a few months earlier on the rough roads driving through the Sierra Nevada mountains from Tonopah to Sacramento - we were hitting some big potholes and I think the shock was enough to jerk the column up.

This is the shaft within a shaft. See the white plastic dots? Those are the pins I mentioned.



The lower segment of the shaft is attached to the coupler with the cross pin and the tiny roll pin that keeps the coupler attached to the shaft. From what I have seen, It can only pull out of the coupler if the tiny roll pin is missing. I'll go try to take a picture of a coupler to illustrate my point.
The upper section of the shaft is attached to the steering wheel and in theory, could pull straight back and out ....but I've never seen that happen.

 

[66 Sat]

View attachment 1442210

This is the shaft within a shaft. See the white plastic dots? Those are the pins I mentioned.



The lower segment of the shaft is attached to the coupler with the cross pin and the tiny roll pin that keeps the coupler attached to the shaft. From what I have seen, It can only pull out of the coupler if the tiny roll pin is missing. I'll go try to take a picture of a coupler to illustrate my point.
The upper section of the shaft is attached to the steering wheel and in theory, could pull straight back and out ....but I've never seen that happen.

Now I'm confused. Not sure if the later models are different but when I refurbed my 66 Satellite steering I left the coupler on the steering box shaft and just pulled the column straight out of the coupler (reason being I couldn't get the roll pin to move). It's a fixed, not collapsible column but there was no pin holding the column to the coupler, only the pin holding the coupler to the steering box shaft.
Maybe by 1969 there were 2 pins (top and bottom of coupler)? If there were, then mine were missing because my column definitely walked its way out of the coupler.

 

[Sixpactogo]

Now I'm confused. Not sure if the later models are different but when I refurbed my 66 Satellite steering I left the coupler on the steering box shaft and just pulled the column straight out of the coupler (reason being I couldn't get the roll pin to move). It's a fixed, not collapsible column but there was no pin holding the column to the coupler, only the pin holding the coupler to the steering box shaft.
Maybe by 1969 there were 2 pins (top and bottom of coupler)? If there were, then mine were missing because my column definitely walked its way out of the coupler.

As KD mentioned in post 41, the shaft was re-designed from the solid shaft in 1967. That said, your 66 didn't get the collapsible column.

 

[Kern Dog]

Pardon my ignorance!
I have very little experience with 1967 and older cars. Here are 4 steering couplers for 1968 and later models.

Note the tiny hole near the edge:

A tiny pin gets pressed in there. The shoe in that side cannot slide past it under normal conditions.
Now here are some 1967 and older couplers.

There are no holes to press in a roll pin.
This is news to me.
I’ll take this as a learning opportunity.

 

[66 Sat]

This thread covers the situation well
Scary steering shaft/coupler failure!
Looks like my 69 Barracuda either didn't have the dowel pin in the hole, or had an earlier coupler.

 

[stushug]

Sometimes when I embark on something new, in my head I make it out to be much more complicated than it is.
When I replaced the front stub on Jigsaw, @eldubb440 was there to guide me though it.



I was nervous and unsure....I expected to encounter a LOT of obstacles.
Your steering box project reminds me of how I can be with new things.

That's how I was feeling during this column work. I let myself get caught up in it a little too much, but now I'm past it. In the end, I know that even if it gets tough along the way, NO car or project is going to beat me. I may hit some rough spots but it's only a matter of time before I win against an inanimate object. Thanks KD and others for your support so far! This is one great site.

 

[66 Sat]

Well I just checked my 1969 FSM and it doesn't show the dowel pin. Maybe it was a mid-year change as some 69 models seem to have it?
If you have a collapsible column I think the dowel pin is a must, or some other way of gently locking the column.

 

[Sixpactogo]

Pardon my ignorance!
I have very little experience with 1967 and older cars. Here are 4 steering couplers for 1968 and later models.

View attachment 1442248

Note the tiny hole near the edge:

View attachment 1442249

A tiny pin gets pressed in there. The shoe in that side cannot slide past it under normal conditions.
Now here are some 1967 and older couplers.

View attachment 1442250
View attachment 1442251

There are no holes to press in a roll pin.
This is news to me.
I’ll take this as a learning opportunity.

Looks like the Mopar engineers added that pin in the coupler when they engineered the collapsing column just for the added protection so if the pins broke off in the shaft, the coupler wouldn't let the shaft come out of the coupler. I always wondered what that pin was good for. Now I know. The older style didn't need the pin.

 

[Kern Dog]

I love learning new things about these old cars.

 

[stushug]

I re-installed the pitman arm today and the steering wheel seems way off from center. The bottom spoke is at somewheer between 4 and 5 o'clock to have the wheels pointing straight. It should be at 6 o'clock. Is this close enough that the wheel can be centered with the tie rod ends or do I have to remove the coupler from the input shaft and re-position it better?