Borgeson steering box

[70ChargerRT]

OK, so

OK, so your original PS pump is leaking, not the actual Borgeson steering box, correct?

Nope the box is leaking like I originally posted. Just make note that if you’re using a Borgeson Power Steering Pump you may want to check how many shims is in it before you fire it up. After research I have found several people had to add shims or take shims out.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Nope the box is leaking like I originally posted. Just make note that if you’re using a Borgeson Power Steering Pump you may want to check how many shims is in it before you fire it up. After research I have found several people had to add shims or take shims out.

Yeah, Im putting in a newly restored saginaw pump.
I will first check the shims, though I dont know how many shims are correct?
Adding a pressure gauge into the system sounds like more money and mess....though maybe is the only way to be sure?

 

[70ChargerRT]

Yeah, Im putting in a newly restored saginaw pump.
I will first check the shims, though I dont know how many shims are correct?
Adding a pressure gauge into the system sounds like more money and mess....though maybe is the only way to be sure?

Maybe different steering boxes have different Max PSi settings, IDK, I didn’t ask that question. Maybe that’s the reason why some pumps have a different number of shims but Borgeson does know how much pressure each shim gives you in their pumps. The Borgeson pump I used looks just like a Saginaw to me, probably what it is. Don’t know the difference but I think those pumps had a round 1300 psi, maybe more with no shims. I remember reading all that info years ago. I think guys were adding shims to tighten up the steering on them old PS Boxes. This is what my valve out of the pump looks like to achieve 1200 psi. 1 shim and I think it’s the same for a Saginaw.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Nope the box is leaking like I originally posted. Just make note that if you’re using a Borgeson Power Steering Pump you may want to check how many shims is in it before you fire it up. After research I have found several people had to add shims or take shims out.

Ok thanks for the clarification. So Borgeson was not surprised? Did they ask you to send it back since their seal leaked or it's an easy repair?

 

[70ChargerRT]

Ok thanks for the clarification. So Borgeson was not surprised? Did they ask you to send it back since their seal leaked or it's an easy repair?

No my warranty ran out. Had the box a while before I installed it

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Bummer. Hoping the one I bought 3 mo ago and waiting for install goes without issue...

 

[gtxdana]

The only way to really know what pressure your pump is putting out is to put a gauge on it. Adding, or removing shims, is just a guessing game. And yes, I've done that more than once.

You can build a pressure tester pretty cheap with an old hose, a gauge, a couple of fittings and a ball valve. I tried using the parts store loaner pressure tester once, but that POS leaked so bad it was totally useless.

Production tolerances when the pump is manufactured is one reason why some valves have more or less shims than another. That Borgeson Saginaw style pump, like virtually every pump and steering gear, are made in China now.

 

[70ChargerRT]

The only way to really know what pressure your pump is putting out is to put a gauge on it. Adding, or removing shims, is just a guessing game. And yes, I've done that more than once.

You can build a pressure tester pretty cheap with an old hose, a gauge, a couple of fittings and a ball valve. I tried using the parts store loaner pressure tester once, but that POS leaked so bad it was totally useless.

Production tolerances when the pump is manufactured is one reason why some valves have more or less shims than another. That Borgeson Saginaw style pump, like virtually every pump and steering gear, are made in China now.

I mean I guess you’re correct if you want to find out yourself but according to what Borgeson is telling me they know exactly what their pumps are putting out and a lot of older articles are pretty consistent with what a older rebuilt Saginaw pump for a big block put out. Again I asked them why some come with more shims and others and he didn’t have the answer. Obviously 3 shims in mine was too many and I didn’t have enough pressure. Taking out 2 did the trick and I also know a few companies make pre-made 1 shim Saginaw 1200 PSi valves. Assuming you don’t have a wore out pump.

 

[Boris7K]

Does anyone know how much fluid this system will take? I bought the kit from Bergman along with a cooler and wonder if 1 quart will be enough.

 

[bradfly]

Does anyone know how much fluid this system will take? I bought the kit from Bergman along with a cooler and wonder if 1 quart will be enough.

I asked Peter this question last week and he said order 2 quarts. Sounds like need approximately 1-1/2 when using cooler.
I am getting ready to order the master kit, but worried about box leak problems and the need to change shims for pressure adjustment, this sounds strange to me. Not sure I’m liking the idea of this mod.

 

[MMorgan]

i installed the Borgeson in my 68 Charger back in 2014. IMO, it is the cats meow. I love it. I ordered it from Peter at Bergman Auto Craft. My Charger had the small pitman. (1 1/8") I believe the larger pitman arm came into play in around 1972. Peter would have that info for you. I also bought the direct fit coupler from them along with a custom hose set for my application since I am using a newer style PS pump.
You said your steering has gotten loose....Have you verified the mounting bolts are still tight? If someone else installed it, it could be they didn't tighten the bolts properly. Just a guess.

I too used Peter. He is the man. He asked me to send him a few pics, and he knew exactly what I needed. He usually has most parts in stock

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Bummer. Hoping the one I bought 3 mo ago and waiting for install goes without issue...

Post-installation and drive report - success! No issues. Drives great and I'm very happy.

So after Kern Dog installed the latest generation Borgeson steering box in his '70 Charger and gave it the thumbs up, I bought one for my '68 Satellite. Since KD had just installed his and had some free time and I had little time myself due to other priorities, I hired KD to install a Borgeson in my own car. Things went very well and I've had 2 separate drives over 40 miles since the install on street and highway. The Borgeson has performed great with excellent steering response and no bad manners. No loud hisses or noises, no leaks, no worries. I used the recommended Drive brand steering fluid and the no-cut steering coupler.

I also want to compare the steering effort since I had wondered about that myself before I had driven a car with a Borgeson. The steering effort is lighter than I had expected. Here's my ranking based on what I've had in my car as well as driven in classic mopars owned by friends, from least steering effort to greatest steering effort:

- Stock ma Mopar (turn the wheel with your pinky finger)
- Firm Feel Stage 1 (the cop car feel, easy steering effort, a little feedback to feel nice. I actually like this one a lot)
- Borgeson steering box (with center slop gone, it's hard to tell if this is lighter than FF stage 2 or the same. It's definitely not heavier than FF stage 2 to me). My ideal sweet spot would be if the Borgeson were just a little heavier than FF stage 2.
- Firm Feel Stage 2 (still easy steering effort, but enough feedback to feel nice. Since this is 2 levels firmer than stock, the off-center 11 to 1 o'clock dead spot in the stock steering box become apparent)
- Firm Feel Stage 2 with Fast Ratio Idler/Pitman (this is responsive, but steering effort was almost as high as non-power assist rack and pinion. Dead spot is there, but not as noticeable due to higher steering effort and quicker response)

I hope this helps some of you who may be on the fence. If you're considering the Borgeson, my vote is to DO IT. I don't think you'll be sorry.

 

[Kern Dog]

I had a stock Mopar steering chuck rebuilt at Firm Feel to their Stage 3 spec and also had the Fast Ratio arms. The Fast Ratio arms are longer and as a result, they make the steering harder to operate. This made the center slop even MORE noticeable because the slop was loose. It was terrible. Turning left then right like you'd do on a tight, curvy road was the worst...You'd have the tight feel of the steering, pass through the loose slop then the wheel would get tight again over and over. It sucked. I kept adjusting the sector screw each time it loosened up but I got at the end of the adjustment. From that point, I couldn't get rid of the slop anymore.
The Borgeson is the same feel across the range of travel, as it should be.
Most people will say that it has no center slop, I'm one of those people but this is dependent on the alignment. If you have a little too much toe IN, the on center steering may feel vague since the tires are actually fighting each other slightly.

 

[69ChargerR/TSE]

I recommend the Borgeson box.
Only needed 1 shim on the frame side of the box.
I suggest using ARP studs.
I have the Borgeson’s pump, but swapped my original reservoir, to keep it OE looking. (All new Driven Racing PS Fluid).

I bought an OE pressure hose, and a date coded return hose(with clamps).

Bergman has the no cut coupler, and the boot cover.

I was lucky to find a factory cooler on FBBO.

I have no complaints on the steering since upgrading.