Can anybody explain steering for me?

[bcOH67]

Ok so I’ve looked at everything I can but haven’t found anything dumb enough for me to comprehend. I have a 67 charger. Factory power steering, front disc brake conversion if that matters….

Basically, can anyone explain to me in as dumbed-down as possible lol why my 67 charger doesn’t drive like a 2023 charger.

I don’t have much slop in my wheel, it’s pretty responsive, but it almost feels over-accentuated. Like I said, I’ve read a lot about upgrades that can be done- but I don’t have a good grasp on what exactly the core reasons are and what those upgrades are doing.

Thanks for anyone who’s got a minute to lend some wisdom.

 

[beanhead]

It's 60s tech vs. modern day. Today the standard is rack and pinion and we also have better power-assist components.
Chrysler's old power steering is famous for "over-assisting" to the point of very light steering feel at speed.
Rack and pinion is just a completely different (and superior) design.

There was an old article called "Pump It Down" which showed how to modify the factory pump to firm up the feel some. You can also use a modified gear from someone like Firm-Feel or Steer and Gear, look into 'hydro-boost' swaps, etc.. The improvents are very good but I can't say if they can ever get the modern steering feel you're after.

 

[64fury74charger]

I’m not sure what you mean by handling like a ‘23 Charger? These are completely different cars in just about every way except the nameplate. There are upgrades that can improve your car’s steering and road manners but likely won’t make it handle like a newer car. What is your goal for this car?

 

[RemCharger]

Well for starters, let's break down your comparison.
A 2023 car is 56 years newer than a 1967. There has been advancements in technology during that time.
To put it in perspective; that would be like comparing a 1911 car to a 1967. " why doesn t my 1911 model T handle like a 67 Charger?".

Steering geometry, tire design and construction, all play a part.
The old Dodges were famous for over-powered steering. Same with the brakes.
Much of it was due to public demand for an easy driving experience.
There are modifications available to tailor your car to your favored driving style

 

[Bighouse]

How about just 14 or 15” tire sidewalls vs. 20”s for starters

Go on YouTube and watch some vintage road tests. Rocker panels damn near scrape the ground.

 

[bcOH67]

Thanks guys! I don’t necessarily know what I’m after for the car. Just to feel more confident driving through curves at higher speeds. Or making adjustments in general at 55+

And yeah I know there’s been advances in technology, I just don’t understand which parts are the important ones to look into changing to make it feel more modern.

Thanks again for the responses!

 

[RemCharger]

Look up Andy Finkbeiner mopar books.
He details how to build a performance mopar. With pictures.

 

[Ron H]

Among the improvements others and I did for my old ride, it accomplished better handling and safety than what these cars had coming off the assembly line. Steering linkage upgrades, FF box, sway bar, radial tires, and other things like a dual reservoir master and disk brakes. Arguably, retaining drum brakes some have said they’re as good as disks. In my case, the disks were like night & day.

Yep, engineering, tech improvements for handling, stability, safety, etc. are like night & day from my 60 year old car. Learning from experience and trial. My ride handles much to my satisfaction, though some upgrades can be had I’ve yet to install. The infamous oversteer, wandering, or loose steering sensation from all rides of the era are largely gone. Among the advancements, are alignment spec’s that are nowhere near to the OEM specs..

 

[493 Mike]

Is your current suspension in new condition (new rubber). You can add a front anti-sway bar easily and it will make a vast improvement in cornering. Tires and wheels are also a easy addition (what's another $2,500.00). If you only change these 3 items you will be amazed.
Mike

 

[murfman]

I have a Firm Feel stage 3 box, the full Hotchkis suspension, 13” rotors, and 17” Magnum 500s on my 66 Charger and it is night and day compared to stock. It is easily 9/10ths of a new Widebody scat pack. I honestly would never own another B body without these upgrades.

 

[Purepony]

Because it’s not a 2023 charger, doesn’t have four doors, isn’t made out of aluminum etc

We’ll I for one don’t believe you can make a 50 year old car handle like a “new modern 2020 and above car”

I just don’t see the tolerances, the steel rigidity, the design process (I mean like panels, design and aerodynamics etc) happening.

Even if you disassemble the whole car you can improve the ride but to handle and drive like a new one I just don’t see that happening no matter how much money you throw at it.

 

[TopBanana72]

I recommend rebuilding the factory front suspension and steering components completely with all new parts and bushings and getting good tires and alignment. The factory setup is really pretty good. After I rebuilt mine, really noticed an improvement. Drives, steers like new, flat cornering, no brake dive. Don't forget the lower control arm bushings and strut bushings. These affect steering.

 

[Ron H]

don’t believe you can make a 50 year old car handle like a “new modern 2020 and above car

Having been around long enough driving cars from the 50’s – 60’s as daily transport and later decades getting spoiled by the newer rides, thought I’d have to live with how my old ride handled even with common improvements such as replacing bushings, ball-joints, worn linkage, shocks, etc. What this got was closer to how the car drove when it was new and before radials.

Started slowly with common replacements mentioned, obtaining an OEM sway bar mine didn’t have, HD leafs, and radials. Significant improvement, but then learned more, thanks to fellow members here and others sharp on this, about incredible upgrades available. Included the FFII and alignment advice. Find a shop that knows how to do this or obtain the specs for them. My shop had no clue trying to set my car up defaulting to OEM specs. There’s other boxes some like better. However, totally amazed how much better my car drove and handled – retaining memories of days of old. Ok no, not like a 2020 Dodge but supremely better than how these rides were when they were born.

 

[Purepony]

Having been around long enough driving cars from the 50’s – 60’s as daily transport and later decades getting spoiled by the newer rides, thought I’d have to live with how my old ride handled even with common improvements such as replacing bushings, ball-joints, worn linkage, shocks, etc. What this got was closer to how the car drove when it was new and before radials.

Started slowly with common replacements mentioned, obtaining an OEM sway bar mine didn’t have, HD leafs, and radials. Significant improvement, but then learned more, thanks to fellow members here and others sharp on this, about incredible upgrades available. Included the FFII and alignment advice. Find a shop that knows how to do this or obtain the specs for them. My shop had no clue trying to set my car up defaulting to OEM specs. There’s other boxes some like better. However, totally amazed how much better my car drove and handled – retaining memories of days of old. Ok no, not like a 2020 Dodge but supremely better than how these rides were when they were born.

I agree. I’m content with even a stock suspension rebuild. I for one am impressed with 70s design compared to the prior designs.

I think after 69 the big three drastically improved their suspension systems

 

[cosgig]

And here I am, loving the way my manual steering and manual drum brakes take me back to the 60’s/70’s. I love the feel of the road, and the raw, mechanical feel of a beast almost untamed. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

 

[RemCharger]

And here I am, loving the way my manual steering and manual drum brakes take me back to the 60’s/70’s. I love the feel of the road, and the raw, mechanical feel of a beast almost untamed. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

You're not alone.
(Except for actually driving in the 60's/70's.. I'm an after-boomer..)

 

[MoparLeo]

Basically a full suspension/steering swap to coil over springs (or strut suspension), electric assisted rack & pinion steering.
Modern tires/wheels. Seats etc... 1967 $3k car, 2023 $40k car.

 

[murfman]

Because it’s not a 2023 charger, doesn’t have four doors, isn’t made out of aluminum etc

We’ll I for one don’t believe you can make a 50 year old car handle like a “new modern 2020 and above car”

I just don’t see the tolerances, the steel rigidity, the design process (I mean like panels, design and aerodynamics etc) happening.

Even if you disassemble the whole car you can improve the ride but to handle and drive like a new one I just don’t see that happening no matter how much money you throw at it.

I wish you were local to me, I’d let you drive my 66 Charger it drives and handles great. 1970 Plymouth Satellite - The Cab Ride - Mopar Muscle Magazine

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Steering geometry on our old cars is excellent as designed. Biggest problem is factory tolerances (how much mounting points are not symmetrical) caster is what will give you stability at speed. The more caster you can put in a old Mopar the better (yes you can have too much, but not with stock parts). Hard to get more than a few degrees with stock uppers and to make them match (straight braking and no side tracking) you usually have to use lower number. Tires is another huge gap in performance there is just no way to make 70 series tires have the responsiveness of modern 50-55 series tires. With radials (even tall 70-75 series) the stock 1966 alignment specs (for bias-ply tires) will never work in unison with radial tire construction.
If all your suspension pieces are in good shape I would have the alignment specs@ 1/2° negative camber, as much positive caster as they can dial in and 1/16" toe inward.
You could get adjustable upper control arms to give more positive caster and not have to change everything.
That's where I would start.

 

[66 Sat]

It's also chassis stiffness, wheelbase, weight distribution..the list goes on.

The old cars handle differently and that's a good thing. I find driving mine much more relaxing that my modern car. Improve what you have by all means, but enjoy what you have too. A nice riding car that you drive a little slower around the corners, but you really have to drive it yourself.