Can someone explain this ?

1968 -1970 Mopars

  1. oldbee

    oldbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Just a thought, rear anchors for t-bars spinning?
     
  2. dual fours

    dual fours Well-Known Member

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    Paint a yellow smear where the bolt touches the LCA, paint a line down on the bolts and paint or a thin strip of duct tape lengthwise on the T-bars, duct tape the camera really good under the car so it will see if the paint lines turn/move. Start the video and drive. Come back, view the video and look for the paint lines to rotated. You could see the adj. bolt turning or just moving down without turning.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  3. pearljam724

    pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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    It’s hard to tell, by myself. But, not that I can tell. I just now raised ride height higher another quarter inch and I’m going to take it out for one more ride to see if it does it one more time. I ll report back on results.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  4. pearljam724

    pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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    Very good idea. I have a camera mount that I can attach to the torsion bar. I ll do that after today if it drops again. Great idea, thank you.
     
  5. dual fours

    dual fours Well-Known Member

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    Tie the camera with a short safety cord, just in case the mount fails so you don't loose/destroy the camera. Make the cord short enough so the camera will not hit the road.
    If you have a wifi camera that sends a video to a smart phone, you could take someone with to watch the picture live as it happens.
     
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    • pearljam724

      pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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      Yeah, I thought about the safety tie. I just pulled in my garage. To no surprise, ride height dropped again. Good news is, I think my driveline vibration isn’t there anymore. I found, I accidentally reversed direction on one axle shim. Now vibration at 70 is pretty much gone. . Might need, a couple more degree shims and driveshaft balanced.
       
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      • pearljam724

        pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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        I fixed it. I dug up an old thread where a person recommended against jacking up the car when turning the adjusters. This person acted like it wasn’t the right thing to do. I said, what the hell and tried it. Doesn’t drop down anymore. I just got back from a ten mile ride and for the first time it stayed up.
         
        Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
      • dadsbee

        dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        Makes no sense.. I still say they're stripped and you've just jammed them well enough with load to stay put for now. Get back to us next week...
         
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        • pearljam724

          pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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          I will bud. I ll update. I agree, but I’m just mentioning what worked. I don’t believe the threads are stripped. I raised and lowered this car 30 times and can see that they’re not. But, sometimes old rusty threads tend to lose what they once were even without stripping them visibly. So, we’ll see. I totally agree, baffled me too.
           
          Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
        • AJ/FormS

          AJ/FormS Well-Known Member

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          I haven't worked on a whole lot of Mopars, but I have never seen it where the bolts turn easy nor so easily that I could use a ratchet on them.

          Unless I had previously taken them apart including the swivel nut, cleaned everything and anti-seized them. Even then they would or could, be stiff.
          Best of luck to you.
           
        • pearljam724

          pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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          Just got back from a 2nd ride. This time, 25 miles. A total of 35 now. Still holding, since it held last time. Simply will not hold a ride height increase when you jack the car off the ground, when adjusting ride height. Adjust it, car on ground. Holds perfectly well. Threads are fine.
           
          Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
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          • hunt2elk

            hunt2elk FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            I had an adjuster bolt strip on me once while turning it up when the weight was on the wheels. That was before before I knew better. Lucky I didn't get seriously injured when the car fell.
             
          • pearljam724

            pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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            Unless, bolts are seized. Any car, should easily raise or lower when you turn the adjusters. It’s not a big deal to do it with car on the ground if they turn fairly easy. I can lay under the front bumper and reach them without being under the car. I think the right thing to do is raise the car, if the bolts don’t turn easily.
             
          • 493 Mike

            493 Mike FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Antisieze is your friend!
            Mike
             
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            • 66 Sat

              66 Sat Well-Known Member

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              I think I know what's going on. I had a similar issue when I rebuilt my front end. I changed everything except the torsion bars - thought I'd save some money. Mine was doing the same thing, settling back down onto the bump stops. I think the old torsion bar metal, after twisting thousands and thousands of times loses it's "spring" in the initial twist. You need to crank them up more and more as they get older, to get to the "newer" metal that hasn't been previously under strain and can therefore give some "spring" back the other way.
              When your adjusting them on the jack you probably only need a few turns to get to the desired height but your not hitting the "new" metal. There's enough spring to hold the car up, but once you start driving they settle down again.
              When you adjust them with the weight of the car on the springs you probably turned them more to get to the right height and therefore put the bar under more torsion than it's "usual" position and therefore it holds it's height.
              You may be thinking now, what is this bloke talking about? You may be right - I could be talking bollocks. I just think of the old bar like a piece of elastic that's been stretched too many times - you need to shorten the elastic to get some tension. With the bar it just needs more twist compared to a newer bar.
              I cranked the adjuster on mine a few times more (car still on the jack) and it's been holding fine ever since.
               
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              • pearljam724

                pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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                I think you’re probably right. I think it’s worn out bars, fatigued metal. I can’t, think of any other logical explanation. Im pretty sure it’s not the adjuster bolts causing it. Otherwise, they wouldn’t lift the car time and time again. Plus, the threads are actually in quite good condition. All I know, is the car is staying up now. Weird, but I believe it’s fixed for now.
                I’ve been chasing a driveline vibration over 65mph for several months now. I definitely found it finally. My passenger motor mount is ripped. I didn’t think they were causing it because they are probably only a few years old with very little mileage. It is in fact ripped, junk.
                Another reason I wanted to raise the front an inch or so. It had too much sway in fast/sharp bends set at 26 inches. I have it set at 27 now and it’s planted very well in those same turns. Like night and day.
                 
                Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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                • dadsbee

                  dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  Well if you are absolutely certain that the threads aren't stripped and the adjuster position isn't changing... have you looked back to see if the crossmember TB sockets aren't rotted and twisting themselves off the car? Only other reasonable explaination as if the bars were indeed that worn out they'd have snapped by now. How many times have you turned the adjuster to lift this car an inch??? There isn't that much thread to do it repeatedly...
                   
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                  • pearljam724

                    pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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                    I have raised and lowered it myself many times. In addition, how many times it dropped on its own. I was looking for the height I wanted. Based on what height it handled best. I don’t live in Kansas. I have a lot of mid speed/sharp corners where I live. Mountain grades, old roads, etc. I was also taking into account looks, noises, etc. A lot of playing around.
                    I was also checking at that time, what height my vibration seemed to disappear. Now, I know vibration is my engine mounts.
                    But raising the car, worked out too. It looks and handles tight turns a lot better now. It wasn’t a waste of time.
                    The under carriage is painted. Based on that, I would see anything that had broken or spun. It would be very evident if so. I looked. I know the undercarriage extremely well. Nothing cracked, evidence of spinning, etc. I have now taken it on 3 rides, roughly 60 miles. I have a lot of very twisty, bumpy, patchy roads on these rides. It is staying up and handling like a new car now. And would have dropped by now based on the mileage and roads I traveled. Prior to adjusting it on the ground. It would drop between 5-10 miles. Every single time.
                    I believe. Based on both sides having the same exact dropping behavior. I believe, the torsion bars are fatigued. If it were anything else. I believe it would only effect one side at a time. To me, that also explains why they both have held up rock solid. When I adjust them with the car on the ground. And it handles fast turns very well now. If something was broken, stripped or spinning. I don’t believe this would happen after adjusting it with car on the ground. Because it would still effect ride height, handling, etc.
                     
                    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
                  • Ceedawg

                    Ceedawg Well-Known Member

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                    My thought, are the amount of threads showing getting less each time you adjust? As many times as you’ve adjusted (think you said 25 times) there should be none left, bolt all the way in. How many turns did the bolt go for each adjustment? The bolt might not be stripped but the nut part could be which I’ve seen happen more often.
                    One other thing, how can you adjust 1-1/2 inch with it jacked off the ground?
                     
                  • ynst

                    ynst FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    How is raising the front end changing your pinion angle?
                    Changing the pinion angle relative to the road surface is NOT the same as changing the pinion angle relative to the transmission main shaft angle and THAT'S how you correct driveshaft vibration. You raise or lower the pinion angle relative to the engine/trans, not the road surface to correct drive-line vibration.
                    When you raise the nose, the front spring hanger comes up as well. So does the engine and trans. Everything's pivoting on the bottom of the rear tire and the pinion angle doesn't change.
                    If you add or remove weight from the trunk, THAT'LL change the pinion angle but raising or lowering the nose won't.

                    Why the nose keeps dropping back down after you crank it up, now that's strange.
                    Are you raising the car off the ground to gain access to the adjuster screws then dropping it back down and measuring it or are you cranking up the bolts with the weight still on the tires?
                    If you're adjuring the torsion bars with the suspension unloaded, you need to roll the tires a bit to let the suspension settle in before you check your ride height because it WILL drop.
                     
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