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Carter AVS 4737S 1970 GTX 440 4BBL

Tony 70GTX

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I had the carb rebuilt back in April of this year. The issue I’m experiencing is in 1st and sometimes 2nd when I give it gas the carb dumps down and then picks up where it left off. Fuel pump pressure is strong, gas float in the carb is correct specs, adjusted the timing, adjusted carb air to allow more gas into the carb. I’m at a loss. I’m really don’t want to replace the carb bit I’m at the point of thinking it with an Elderbrock. The no modifiations to the engine the car is all original matching # car.

Any suggestions is welcomed
 
I had the carb rebuilt back in April of this year. The issue I’m experiencing is in 1st and sometimes 2nd when I give it gas the carb dumps down and then picks up where it left off. Fuel pump pressure is strong, gas float in the carb is correct specs, adjusted the timing, adjusted carb air to allow more gas into the carb. I’m at a loss. I’m really don’t want to replace the carb bit I’m at the point of thinking it with an Elderbrock. The no modifiations to the engine the car is all original matching # car.

Any suggestions is welcomed
Possibly its the accelerator pump adjustment or the accelerator pump plunger assembly (the diameter of the plunger in your rebuild kit may be incorrect) or the accelerator pump inlet check valve (a brass body ball check valve in the bottom of the accelerator pump well) may not be seating, causing the accelerator pump to not provide the shot of gas when the throttle is actuated. Another possibility is the accelerator pump disc discharge check weight not opening or the discharge nozzles may be partially obstructed......just a thought....others may provide additional information......
BOB RENTON
 
Is the engine totally stock? Any deviation from stock with these tightly controlled emission carbs can lead to flat spots.
With the carb full of fuel, activate the throttle while looking into the pri bores for acc pump squirt.

Is the flat spot with the pri or sec or both?
 
Is the engine totally stock? Any deviation from stock with these tightly controlled emission carbs can lead to flat spots.
With the carb full of fuel, activate the throttle while looking into the pri bores for acc pump squirt.

Is the flat spot with the pri or sec or both?
The motor is totally stock. Happens with the primary
 
Have you made sure that the secondary air valve isn't opening too soon? You say the carb was rebuilt, did you do it or was it done by someone else? I wonder if the proper leather pump seal was used, some kits use neoprene.

Also, inspect the 'S' shaped linkage that connects the accelerator pump rocker arm to the pump. When viewed from the front it should look like an 'S', not reversed.
 
Have you made sure that the secondary air valve isn't opening too soon? You say the carb was rebuilt, did you do it or was it done by someone else? I wonder if the proper leather pump seal was used, some kits use neoprene.

Also, inspect the 'S' shaped linkage that connects the accelerator pump rocker arm to the pump. When viewed from the front it should look like an 'S', not reversed.
I had a reputable carb rebuilder do the carb. I’ll find out what type of seal was used but wouldn’t I also have the issue on the secondary if the wrong seal was used? I’ll check the S linkage.
 
I had a reputable carb rebuilder do the carb. I’ll find out what type of seal was used but wouldn’t I also have the issue on the secondary if the wrong seal was used? I’ll check the S linkage.
There is no secondary accelerator pump on that carb.
 
I use an edelbrock 1467 accelerator pump instead of the leather types. I also use a .028 squirter from an AFB. I've opened up the idle jet tube to .037" and have mixture screws out about 4 turns. Jetting is stock but replaced metering rods with 63x47 's. This is the original 4618 avs for my car. Drives very nicely and power is very smooth.
 
The leather acc pump plungers are best. I have had the aftermarket rubber ones 'roll over'. Also, not all of the rubber ones are compatible with E fuel.
I described a simple test in post #3 to see if the acc pump is working.....
That should be the first test.
 
The leather plungers were and still are junk. I remember back in the "60"s having to take those pieces of crap out and stretching them on a frequent basis to try get them to work. Between those crappy pumps, crummy pull over squirter, and the check valve at the bottom of the pump well it was difficult to not have hesitations; especially with a ridiculously lean idle circuit. All this crap is why we ditched the avs for a holley back in the late 60's. Even Mopar offered the 3310 holley over the counter in 1969 because people didn't want the avs headache. Now with better parts avaliable all those headaches can be left behind. He'll, how many people today ditch the avs for edelbrock?
 
Leather must be different in different countries......
Maybe your superior knowledge can explain why having the check valve at the base of the pump well is a bad thing...Are you suggesting it should be at the top?
I'll bet the 4 bbl Holleys that were factory fitted on a few BB engines also had 'ridiculously lean idle' ccts because they had to meet the emission targets...just like AVS did.
And..er....the squirter is not a 'pull over squirter'. You have obviously never taken a close look at it. It is a veeeeeeeeery clever design that atomises the fuel BEFORE it leaves the squirter for better burn characteristics & less emissions. You will not find one on a Holley or clone....
So much BS in post #10.
 
Carter 625 v Holley 600. From the Carter: 17 hp more, 17 ft lbs more & used less fuel doing it....

img248.jpg
 
Leather must be different in different countries......
Maybe your superior knowledge can explain why having the check valve at the base of the pump well is a bad thing...Are you suggesting it should be at the top?
I'll bet the 4 bbl Holleys that were factory fitted on a few BB engines also had 'ridiculously lean idle' ccts because they had to meet the emission targets...just like AVS did.
And..er....the squirter is not a 'pull over squirter'. You have obviously never taken a close look at it. It is a veeeeeeeeery clever design that atomises the fuel BEFORE it leaves the squirter for better burn characteristics & less emissions. You will not find one on a Holley or clone....
So much BS in post #10.
Go bullshit someone else.
 
Yes, Bob, you would be well advised to read post #15 until it sinks in....
 
Back to the OP request, for suggestions: (and opinions)

The carb being rebuilt can mean, it is cleaned, seals and gaskets replaced and adjustments approximated. It may not mean it is perfectly adjusted on the bench, nor ideally adjusted to your engine, throttle pressure setting, idle setting, choke adjustment, vacuum, and so forth.

You may need to fine tune a few things to get it working well. A well tuned carb (for the engine) runs pretty darn well and seems to just barely under-perform fuel-injected setups. It is rare a carburetor drops in, bolts in to place, and runs perfectly without some minor tweaking.

You're fortunate in that the Carter 4737 is among the least emission finicky.

Unless you're uncomfortable doing so, I suggest rechecking all (or as many as you can) the adjustments of the carb using the factory service manual and rebuild kit instructions (presuming they were furnished by the rebuilder.) A rebuilder can only approximate adjustments without testing it on your actual engine.

Checking these adjustments may be a learning curve for some, but they teach you what to look for, and to listen for. With some patience, I've been blessed to get things running really well following a given rebuild.

Contrary to some other experience shared, I've found the leather accelerator plungers are the best performing when they aren't worn, and properly saturated with fuel. Do check the plunger in the cylinder. It is possible (but unlikely unless the rebuilder goofed) it is the wrong diameter. If it seems tight, and squirts when you move it up and down, it is probably correct. There are only a few sizes, and they vary quite a bit. The wrong one may not move or squirt at all.

Changing to a different carb, jet size, and some of the other suggestions, I would do only when I've given up making an OEM stock setup function correctly.

A vacuum gauge you can read while driving can be really informative.

As many readers may know, when you whomp on the throttle, the secondaries open, and engine vacuum can drop. It is the accelerator pump's job to squirt more fuel in to the motor during this operation to boost the RPM and offset the loss in vacuum and keep the engine accelerating (and vacuum up) during this operation.

The AFB carburetors have mechanical secondaries, which means, you floor it, they open, no matter what. An AVS carburetor is kinda cool, and I love these on 440 motors. The secondaries on the AVS are driven by vacuum, more or less, and while they may open slightly slower than AFB, they are less prone to a stall during hard acceleration when the accelerator pump is not doing its job.

On the AVS, the secondaries do not open as abruptly as they can on an AFB carb, so it is less likely flooring it can open the secondaries, and drop the vacuum faster than the engine can handle.

If you have a good clean carb, that is causing a hesitation under the right load and hard (or abrupt throttle) accelerating action, I agree with others the accelerator pump function and adjustment are the first places to look.
 
Back to the OP request, for suggestions: (and opinions)

The carb being rebuilt can mean, it is cleaned, seals and gaskets replaced and adjustments approximated. It may not mean it is perfectly adjusted on the bench, nor ideally adjusted to your engine, throttle pressure setting, idle setting, choke adjustment, vacuum, and so forth.

You may need to fine tune a few things to get it working well. A well tuned carb (for the engine) runs pretty darn well and seems to just barely under-perform fuel-injected setups. It is rare a carburetor drops in, bolts in to place, and runs perfectly without some minor tweaking.

You're fortunate in that the Carter 4737 is among the least emission finicky.

Unless you're uncomfortable doing so, I suggest rechecking all (or as many as you can) the adjustments of the carb using the factory service manual and rebuild kit instructions (presuming they were furnished by the rebuilder.) A rebuilder can only approximate adjustments without testing it on your actual engine.

Checking these adjustments may be a learning curve for some, but they teach you what to look for, and to listen for. With some patience, I've been blessed to get things running really well following a given rebuild.

Contrary to some other experience shared, I've found the leather accelerator plungers are the best performing when they aren't worn, and properly saturated with fuel. Do check the plunger in the cylinder. It is possible (but unlikely unless the rebuilder goofed) it is the wrong diameter. If it seems tight, and squirts when you move it up and down, it is probably correct. There are only a few sizes, and they vary quite a bit. The wrong one may not move or squirt at all.

Changing to a different carb, jet size, and some of the other suggestions, I would do only when I've given up making an OEM stock setup function correctly.

A vacuum gauge you can read while driving can be really informative.

As many readers may know, when you whomp on the throttle, the secondaries open, and engine vacuum can drop. It is the accelerator pump's job to squirt more fuel in to the motor during this operation to boost the RPM and offset the loss in vacuum and keep the engine accelerating (and vacuum up) during this operation.

The AFB carburetors have mechanical secondaries, which means, you floor it, they open, no matter what. An AVS carburetor is kinda cool, and I love these on 440 motors. The secondaries on the AVS are driven by vacuum, more or less, and while they may open slightly slower than AFB, they are less prone to a stall during hard acceleration when the accelerator pump is not doing its job.

On the AVS, the secondaries do not open as abruptly as they can on an AFB carb, so it is less likely flooring it can open the secondaries, and drop the vacuum faster than the engine can handle.

If you have a good clean carb, that is causing a hesitation under the right load and hard (or abrupt throttle) accelerating action, I agree with others the accelerator pump function and adjustment are the first places to look.
That is partially correct. Both the AFB and AVS have vacuum controlled secondaries. The bottom throttle plates open right away upon full throttle on both types, but the secondary control air flaps are opened by air flow. The AVS flaps are kept closed by spring pressure, easily adjustable, while the AFB flaps are closed by counterweights. Carter issued several AFB air flaps for tuning, with different mass of counterweight and various attack angles on the blades.
 
I presume the car in question is the 70GTX in the OP's avatar. That engine is over 50 yrs old & is stock, according to the OP. The odds are pretty good that a 50+ yr old engine has been rebuilt.
Maybe the OP is the original owner......or, if not, has documentation to prove the engine is untouched.
So my question/suggestion is: how sure are you OP that the engine is totally stock?
Need more info on the flat spot. Is it occurring with just a small amount of throttle? Just off idle? OK at higher throttle openings?
If the flat spot is occurring just off idle with a small amount of throttle opening, it could be worn throttle shafts.
 
The assumption is the carb worked fine before rebuild. Had it rebuilt than did it work for a period of time? Or have this issue as it came back from rebuilder? If the latter, you need to disassemble and inspect. Despite reliable or reputable... folks have gotten carbs back that were not right.

I have seen wrong gasket used on the venturis. Wrong rods/jet combos, etc.... If it did work fine at first, could be a clogged fuel or air bleed. First suspect is the accel pump as discussed. Then clean out the idle mixture port to see if it is clogged. After that might have to disassemble to inspect clean primary venturis.
 
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