Constant project

1971 - 1974 Mopars

  1. Lowe.n.behold

    Lowe.n.behold Active Member

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    So to start off I have a 73 Charger 318 w/ w30 heads, 262 comp cam. Edlebrock 4bbl performer 318/360 intake w a carter afb 9636sa. I've been playing with this for over 10 years and put maybe 20 miles on it in 8 years. It has had a issue where tap the key starts up sounds great. Tap throttle and it kicks down and dies. If I get the car to idol on its own when I put it into gear it slams. Then I'm fine until I come to a stop and car dies. I can always get the car going but not reliable enough to take wife in it or her drive it. With no emission pieces and the fact that every picture I look at on the web has someone using different intake port or they have their carb hooked to pcv valve, some have booster connecterd to carb some to intake. Im just curious what jumps out at others as to the issues I'm having. I spend hours standing next to it searching the web and then my brain turns to mush. Thoughts are great im not a mechanic but have always worked on my cars but this that should be the most basic kills me...

    20210126_142519.jpg 20210126_142500.jpg 20210126_142443.jpg
     
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    • 440Coronet500

      440Coronet500 Well-Known Member

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      Back to basics here, where's your initial timing set? 440'
       
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      • 65-440

        65-440 Well-Known Member

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        Man I wish you were close to me, I'd help you out in a heartbeat.... right off the bat it sounds like a carb issue. Check float level, idle mixture. Make sure no vacuum leaks, all ports used or plugged? After you get it to idle verify timing.
         
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        • peabodyracin

          peabodyracin FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          I'd guess you're dealing with vacuum leak(s). A couple things I think I make out on your pictures:

          The PCV valve hookup port is the one centered in the front of the carburetor. I don't know what you hooked it up to. Center photo shows something hooked to the rear intake manifold port which is normally used for power brakes and other vacuum needs such as under dash heater and a/c controls.

          Is the PCV valve new? I've seen a bad one drive me crazy trying to figure out why the car won't idle down.

          The vacuum advance for the distributor needs to be hooked up to a ported vacuum port on the front of the carburetor. Sorry I can't recall which is which off the top of my head, but you can look that up on line. If you have the advance hooked to a manifold vacuum port, you'll have full advance at idle but little to no vacuum signal off idle.

          I would try all that as well as disconnecting the vacuum advance line, plug the port and see what you have for initial timing with just the distributor mechanical advance working. If the timing is too retarded, the engine will probably start up ok but won't like to idle down very well.

          Once you have the car moving does the engine seem to run ok? Does it feel sluggish for example?

          It slams when putting the transmission in gear; is the engine idling quite high at that point?

          I'm sure others much smarter than me will chime in too.

          One last comment: please re-do the carb return spring. That one looks way too stretched out and you should have a 2 spring setup for safety.
           
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          • #41

            #41 Well-Known Member

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            Edelbrock has their carb manuals on line if you need one for reference. Don't worry about how others set it up.

            You are using the right port for timing, but the front middle large port needs to have the plug removed and connect it to the PVC (which should be on the valve cover but is missing in the photo). Keep the brakes ported off the intake like it appears to be. Set idle and check/set timing.

            Report back.
             
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            • Lowe.n.behold

              Lowe.n.behold Active Member

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              I have no idea a friend timed it last time I actual tried taking it around the block alittle over a year ago. Booster is connected to intake manifold. I will connect center port to PCV. The vacuum advance is connected to the timed port on front of carb. I have been all over edlebrock and carter but they have not been much help.. There is no other vacuum lines. I literally just put dashboard back in last week after I had gutted car, redid seams seals, sound deadening and insulation and new carpet. I thought why not redo the wiring (how hard could it be) literally almost punted the car till a great guy on here helped get head back on the prize. Yes when I get it to idle on its own it is still alittle bit high around 900 to 1100 rpm I think. it has never been fast off line but at 35mph it was alot more responsive. I will run and grab a timing light and maybe a tach just so I can watch it. I've never opened or rebuilt a carb. The 9636 was I think $50 from a old friend. Is there a carb that would work better for my setup? im having shoulder surgery soon so time is short. I will go thru and try to check timing and report back Wednesday night. ..last week prior to my mechanical oil gauge fault was the first time it ran without smoking but cars idle was way to high. Then gauge blew and car filled with oil.

              I truly appreciate all the help and ideas and interest.
               
            • Don Frelier

              Don Frelier FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              I have some suggestions:

              1. I agree to check the timing probably around 10-15 degrees BTDC as a starting point
              2. You've got to eliminate any vacuum leaks. Check vacuum caps for splits get new ones.
              You can plug the PCV temporarily just to test if need be.
              3. If your not comfortable working on the carb then look up some information on Carter carbs and study it first.
              PM me and I can e-mail you some stuff.
              A couple easy things to check are the metering rods and remove clean blow out the idle mixture screws.
              But you really need to take the top off to see what you have inside.
              OR
              Remove it and send it to be rebuillt woodruff carbs here has good reviews. The one you have should work well for your application.
              OR
              Buy a new carb and try that.

              Hopefully this helps.
               
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              • 70chall440

                70chall440 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                I concur with the others, sounds like a vacuum leak. Here is a tip, get some carb cleaner and if you can get it running, spray a little around the hoses and base of the carb; if the engine speeds up you have found your vacuum leak.

                More times than not, a vacuum leak is a cracked or broken hose or a bad gasket under the carb.

                We are in the same state but you are quite a bit north of me or I would come over.
                 
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                • Lowe.n.behold

                  Lowe.n.behold Active Member

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                  Well that didn't go as planned... I was checking the timing and it showed about +8. Idle was like 1200-1800. Then for whatever reason the distributor got moved (friends and their infinite wisdom) well till it goes wrong and they all of a sudden need to leave.... and the carburetor caught on fire then car wouldn't start so I walked. I just wanted to report back with what is my life. With it catching fire hood insulation went out immediately but I didn't realize carb was still on fire inside carb 10-15 sec later and blew it out.

                  So there is 1line from vacuum advance to timed port, 1 brake booster to rear intake manifold, and the fuel line going to carb. No other vacuum lines on car. I am fine if I have detailed instruction. I can typically get close to desired results. That is how we learn though. Also why bondo smell and the smell of old crankcases along with anything that over heats or melts (that shouldn't) remind me of growing up. So I guess I can get a rebuild kit and take over the coffee table.. hahahahahaha sorry thought I heard my wife yelling at me for thinking that. If there is issues w the car it doesn't matter how good the timing is so...I went to carter.com and they told me very little about this carb. Any kit for this carb will work regardless of where I get it right? Also found out classic industries won't give me a refund like they said they were. only a credit for their site.
                   
                • Lowe.n.behold

                  Lowe.n.behold Active Member

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                  peabodyracin:: I replaced the spring with the dual 2 spring setup.. so i am gonna rebuild the carburetor. That being said ugh slightly intimidating.... wish me luck.. thank you all that have chimed in.... i will call Autozone or Oriellys to see if they have a rebuild kit after i look on the website to see what it says to do.... I will report back soon... 70Chall440 you are not that far..lol My Father in law was raised in Yelm for a while...but i dont expect anyone to physically help.. if it gets to that point i will probably be having a different motor installed.lol
                   
                • #41

                  #41 Well-Known Member

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                  Before you rip the carb, I think you should try again. +8 is bad if you mean after TDC. You can't check static time at that high rpm, and you need to get the timing close before you can start to diagnose other problems.

                  Set static timing from the beginning:

                  1. Take out plug #1 (drivers side, front).
                  2. Put your finger in the hole and have someone crank the engine a little bit - slowly.
                  3. STOP when the compression blows you finger out of the hole.
                  4. Look at the timing mark and turn the engine by hand forward or backward to 10 degrees before zero.
                  5. If its way off, you can go back to step 2 and try again.
                  6. Remove dizzy cap and rotate the dizzy until the rotor points directly at #1 plug wire. Check the order of the wires while you are at it.
                  7. Put it all back together and tighten the dizzy down enough that it is hard to turn by hand, but can still be moved.

                  Try and start it. See if you can get it run at 800 rpm with a little warm up. If you can't get it to run at low rpm, then my bet like everyone else is that you have a vacuum leak and/or your carb is gunked up from sitting too long.
                   
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                  • Lowe.n.behold

                    Lowe.n.behold Active Member

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                    like I said previously there is only the vacuum advance and the brake booster. ive had the car running and all of a sudden it will stumble and then it will speed up. it just wont stay at a constant idle... timing mark on the harmonic balancer i think that is what it is called? i will go back in and follow your steps and report back i just need to eat real quick.... Thank you ...
                     
                  • Lowe.n.behold

                    Lowe.n.behold Active Member

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                    This is top dead center

                    20210130_162401.jpg
                     
                  • Lowe.n.behold

                    Lowe.n.behold Active Member

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                    Also I had the wife grab new plugs which has become last time she goes to autostart store. They told her the gap was .035 but my book shows .014-.019
                     
                  • 65-440

                    65-440 Well-Known Member

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                    .014 - .019? No way
                     
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                    • #41

                      #41 Well-Known Member

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                      Your car should have electronic ignition, so gap at .035.

                      Picture is a little fuzzy, but looks like might be TDC. You have to make sure it is on the compression stroke as I laid out though.
                       
                      Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
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                      • Don Frelier

                        Don Frelier FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        .014 sounds like breaker point gap.
                        .035 is correct for spark plugs
                         
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                        • SureGrip

                          SureGrip FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                          *YIKES*

                          What book are you looking at?

                          Go here, download the chassis FSM for your car:

                          http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=109
                           
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                          • QuickBpBp

                            QuickBpBp FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                            Speaking of fires... I would remove that glass bowl filter from sitting on the intake. Many cars have caught fire just from that alone... There are O Rings in there that dry out and then loosens that glass tube which sprays fuel all over creating a massive fire... Not to mention that is a boiling point for gas laying there which creates vapor lock issues. Also the rubber gas line that long is not good either.. Good luck with the other stuff.
                             
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                            • Lowe.n.behold

                              Lowe.n.behold Active Member

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                              Ok so I've replaced fuel filter and raised it so no longer in contact with intake. used as much metal gas line as I had till I can grab new stuff, ya it was the points I was looking. I am using the Haynes book. so the new rotor is pointed to cylinde 1, i double checked wire location, all is good there. I've wondered which is better manual electric fuel pump. Alot of things will be done later I just wanna get it going! Trying to keep up and take the advice given. Which I appreciate.
                               
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