Extreme Violence Video Involves A Police Officer VS A Knife Wielding Subject

[70chall440]

Thanks for taking the time to write!! I have a family member who was shot on duty, shot in the face with a .22 while trying to deliver a subpoena for child support. He survived with lead lodge between upper jaw and brain.
Works with K9 now.

No problem, sorry to hear about your family member but am happy they are doing ok now. Most cops will tell you that probably one of if not the most dangerous calls are domestics but any encounter can be dangerous as there is no way to see what is in someone's heart.

 

[70chall440]

Say what? At 5-10 feet? I think any firearms knowledgeable person here will disagree.
The 9mm SUCKS.
Personally? A .44 Magnum works best

Well I am definitely knowledgeable about firearms and I agree with HALOJUMPER, there exists this urban legend/myth about caliber performance and as I stated previously, the science on its face would suggest that a larger heavier projectile would provide better performance than a lighter smaller one, however in practical application in the real world this is not the case necessarily. As stated, it is all about shot placement first and foremost.

Points in case,

1. years ago I read a WWII story about a US Marine who was shot something like 10+ times with a stolen Thompson submachine gun in the Pacific and lived; that was 45 ACP 230 grain ball.

2. there exists some old footage of a cop in a large US city shooting a person with a 1911 (also .45 ACP), the person rolls over a car fender out of view, when the cop comes around the corner of the car the guy gets up and runs away (albeit bleeding).

3. During the Korean conflict the US Army sent in a team to research equipment to determine what was working and what was needed. On the issue of guns (everyone had M1 Garands in 30-06 then) the #1 complaint was the inability to kill the enemy. Upon further research it was discovered that in many cases the soldiers were not actually hitting the N. Korean or Chinese soldiers or were only wounding them, but they continued to fight. Keep in mind that at the end of WWII the Army pretty much did away with real marksmanship training.

I could on and on as I have a lot of experience concerning this issue and have been involved in a lot of research, training and application of this. More people are killed with .22 than anything else. Many people have gone online to talk about how terrible 5.56 is, yet many bad guys would tell you that it kills just like anything else.

9mm does not suck, many people have been killed with it. When I came into the Army we were still carrying 1911's with 7 rounds of 230 grain .45 ACP. When we went to the M9 in 9mm, everyone was all pissed off, however we quickly determined that it was exceptionally capable and since it was a secondary weapon system, it was not one we started the gun fight with, but if you got into a situation where you needed it, I would rather have 15rds of 9mm than 7 of .45 (there are a lot more bad guys than I have bullets). That said, for personal defense, carry what you train and can hit with, the caliber is not nearly as important as people would want you to believe.

If you want to carry around a hand cannon in .44 Mag, go on with your bad self but when that gun recoils and you are way off target and cannot reacquire quick enough, at least you will know you are the one with the biggest gun there when the dumbass banger puts 15 rounds of 9mm on you. There is a lot more to carrying a weapon than just having it, you need to be able to conceal it, draw it, present it and hit a specific spot with it (perhaps more than once as demonstrated by the video that started all of this).

Whatever you carry you are betting your life on, if thats a .45, 9mm, .44 mag, or .22, make sure you can use it correctly. There are 3 things every man is absolutely positive they are great at; screwing, driving and shooting... most are lucky if they can do one of them because all of them take practice..

 

[Ghostrider 67]

I recall a couple of troops complaining about all of the extra training at Ft Hood on the way to Iraq. Their platoon SGT told them they had better get with the program because after the opposition is sending lead your way it's too damn late to become proficient with whatever weapon is in your hands.

 

[halojumper]

Say what? At 5-10 feet? I think any firearms knowledgeable person here will disagree.
The 9mm SUCKS.
Personally? A .44 Magnum works best

9mm does not suck. I don't buy the .40. '45 caliber myth. Shot placement beats spray, and pray.

 

[halojumper]

Yeah, I agree, I guess that comes from a gunshop I worked at year ago. I carried an M9 in the Army. Couldnt kill **** with it, and I did hit the enemy. Problem was the FMJ rounds just zip right through. Plus most Haji's were high on Heroin unless you make a headshot? It took 4-6 rounds to do anything.. 1911 would have worked much better.

A .45 would not have done **** either. Anybody on high on smack, or Kaat will still run at you.

 

[RM23M9A]

Well I am definitely knowledgeable about firearms and I agree with HALOJUMPER, there exists this urban legend/myth about caliber performance and as I stated previously, the science on its face would suggest that a larger heavier projectile would provide better performance than a lighter smaller one, however in practical application in the real world this is not the case necessarily. As stated, it is all about shot placement first and foremost.

Points in case,

1. years ago I read a WWII story about a US Marine who was shot something like 10+ times with a stolen Thompson submachine gun in the Pacific and lived; that was 45 ACP 230 grain ball.

2. there exists some old footage of a cop in a large US city shooting a person with a 1911 (also .45 ACP), the person rolls over a car fender out of view, when the cop comes around the corner of the car the guy gets up and runs away (albeit bleeding).

3. During the Korean conflict the US Army sent in a team to research equipment to determine what was working and what was needed. On the issue of guns (everyone had M1 Garands in 30-06 then) the #1 complaint was the inability to kill the enemy. Upon further research it was discovered that in many cases the soldiers were not actually hitting the N. Korean or Chinese soldiers or were only wounding them, but they continued to fight. Keep in mind that at the end of WWII the Army pretty much did away with real marksmanship training.

I could on and on as I have a lot of experience concerning this issue and have been involved in a lot of research, training and application of this. More people are killed with .22 than anything else. Many people have gone online to talk about how terrible 5.56 is, yet many bad guys would tell you that it kills just like anything else.

9mm does not suck, many people have been killed with it. When I came into the Army we were still carrying 1911's with 7 rounds of 230 grain .45 ACP. When we went to the M9 in 9mm, everyone was all pissed off, however we quickly determined that it was exceptionally capable and since it was a secondary weapon system, it was not one we started the gun fight with, but if you got into a situation where you needed it, I would rather have 15rds of 9mm than 7 of .45 (there are a lot more bad guys than I have bullets). That said, for personal defense, carry what you train and can hit with, the caliber is not nearly as important as people would want you to believe.

If you want to carry around a hand cannon in .44 Mag, go on with your bad self but when that gun recoils and you are way off target and cannot reacquire quick enough, at least you will know you are the one with the biggest gun there when the dumbass banger puts 15 rounds of 9mm on you. There is a lot more to carrying a weapon than just having it, you need to be able to conceal it, draw it, present it and hit a specific spot with it (perhaps more than once as demonstrated by the video that started all of this).

Whatever you carry you are betting your life on, if thats a .45, 9mm, .44 mag, or .22, make sure you can use it correctly. There are 3 things every man is absolutely positive they are great at; screwing, driving and shooting... most are lucky if they can do one of them because all of them take practice..

Good points for sure. I feel sorry for the soldiers & Marines now carring the Sig 320, Ive seen a LOT of extractor breaks with those. At least commercially sold ones. MIM is probably the culprit.

Yeah, I agree also that it was better to have 15 9mm vs 7-8 .45 rounds. .44 isnt that bad, other than the "Hyped"Dirty Harry" flicks. With a 180Gr round, one (Trained with it) can dump all 6 into an aggressor 10 feet away w/o a miss.. Dependeing on ones' stress level. Personally? I carry either my Glock 22 in .40 (15+1) HST 180 gr, or my Sig P229R chambered in .357Sig.

.44's fun, but yeah, if in wrong store wrong time? I'd prefer my 13 round Sig P229 over anything else. Wish we had the
357 Sig in Iraq, hell a Desert Eagle in .44 would have been a dream as a "Tanker". Especially while your loader is headspacing the M2 and one gets overrun!

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Living in downstate Zoo York I can not get a CCP,only long arms allowed in the home.
Either way the shoot was instant justice,,,,my favorite!

 

[halojumper]

I dont think so.... A well placed .44 Magnum round to ANYWHERE between the foot and top of head? (Minus a hand) WILL be the end of whoever the threat WAS.
Do some ballistics research .44 magnum vs 9mm and let us know how that works out..lol
Oh! Youre gonna be late for school!!! (LoL)

So you conceal carry a 44 magnum?
Ok, expert. How many people have you shot with a 44 ? Somebody needs to go back to school.

 

[halojumper]

(Actually Ive been to your school, and tested out of it)

No I open carry it. Do you know what H.A.L.O. is an acronym for?
How do I unsubscribe from the "9 Year Old's Only " thread?
Ive actually only had to use it in defense of my life once. It was confiscated then returned once judge deemed it "Justifiable Self Defense"
Please, go clean your Glock 19

High altitude low opening, HAHO, High altitude high opening, look at the picture, yes that is me. You mean clean my Beretta APX Centurion. Here is one LAPES low altitude parachute extraction system i have jumped the MTXX, MT1XR,MC3. my sport rig was a Performance designs 210 F1 11 main canopy pd 176 reserve, cypres aad, soft links, Javelin container. I have jumped the Dash one Bravo, Dash one Charlie, T-10 Those are static line troop delivery systems. I bet you are one of those guys that brandishes their weapon if they get cut off in traffic. You seem to fit the psychological profile by your immature, and childish sideswipe insults.

 

[Ron H]

My brother, now retired state cop, said domestic calls were the most concerning and a cop buddy of his was killed during one of them. After signing a waiver I rode with him on a couple occasions on his night shifts. I found it takes some gonads to do the job a cop does. Couple times on a dark stretch of highway he'd pull over some schmuck driving strange or way over the limit. He'd get out of the squad and take the trek to the car keeping his eyes on the occupants off the reflection of the spotlights and using his flashlight. I'd think, who knows if one of them has a hand gun on his lap smart enough to know when to try to use it. There's an ever-present void of danger cops have to deal with - the unknown reaction of people despite all the training they get and it's entirely up to the cop to make the split-second right or wrong call...could the guy be drunk, doped up, having a reaction to a legal medication, diabetic shock, a dangerous dude with a record of felonies who cares not killing someone...wdf knows. I had a good friend who was a serious diabetic and he got crazy on two occasions I remember needing a sugar fix before he got worse. He had told me to be aware of his behavior and what to do; thankfully his info came in real handy. So now we have politicians working to make cops more accountable - more lawsuits, criminal prosecution, etc. and worldly advice on how they should react to situations a cop encounters while these schmucks have no worry about enforcing the law on the front line. They just expect their asses to be protected by cops when they might need it as most of us do. Granted, there are the few outrageous occasions when a cop does something totally wrong and end up in court and have been jailed. The pendulum has swung already for higher accountability...how many thousands of justified arrests, likely daily, do cops make without incident? Haven't heard any stat's on this. Include many where some resistance occurred. I thought about this when I found out my plates were expired and got a paper from the DMV to show if i got stopped until I got my new plate sticker. I put that in my glove box then had the thought of being pulled over. I figured no friggin way would I reach over to open my glove box to get it as the cop is walking up to car! How the f would he know what I'm doing? Getting stopped by police my folks told me eons ago, as a white kid, to cooperate fully period. If there's an unfair outcome take it up in court. How many deaths might have been avoided if the people would have been cooperative include likely the diff btw and arrest or not? My brother has a ton of stories about this.