Gas Tank Replacement

1966 -1967 Mopars

  1. 67GTX440

    67GTX440 Well-Known Member

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    I purchased a new Canadian made gas tank (Spectra-Premium?) for the 67 GTX as this was the recommended tank by many on this forum. Also new rubber hoses, clamps, strap and tank to filler grommet. I took this to a shop to be installed.

    I picked up the car yesterday, and stopped to add gas since they had only put in five gallons of new gas in containers I had brought to the shop. When I filled the tank, I got about an additional ten gallons in before I noticed gas running onto the ground from the grommet where the filler tube went into the tank (19 gallon total tank). This dumped about 3 gallons of gas under the car and I was afraid to start the car for fear of gas leaking onto the hot tailpipe. I called a tow truck to haul the car back to the shop.

    The mechanic said he put some lube on the grommet, but it was basically a dry fit with no sealant. Not sure what do do to get this fixed? Some sort of sealant that will bond with work with rubber and metal and withstand gasoline, or have to drop the tank to try another grommet?

    The tank was installed with the filler tube attached to the quarter panel of the car and the tank slid up through the gasket and into the fill tube. Does the tank need to be installed and then the fill tube installed so the fill tube can be rotated into the gas tank through the gasket, or can the gas tank be installed on the fill tube from below with the sill tube in place?

    The shop noted that the old tank seemed to be bowed out on the bottom as compared to the new tank. Does this indicate I may have a vent tube problem? They were supposed to make sure the vent tube was clear before they installed the new rubber hoses, but I have no way to know if they did. Is there anything to fail on the vent tube or filler (such as an internal flap) or are they good if they show no sign of corrosion or penetration? The car has always seemed to spit back a small mist of gas during fill up unless the hose was inserted upside down and gas was added very slowly.

    The car was originally dripping small amounts of gas during fill up that I assumed was from a deteriorated rubber fill hose connecting to the metal filler. I just swapped out the gas tank and strap as they indicated the gas tank needed to be dropped and grommet replaced anyway to do this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  2. 67 coronet

    67 coronet Well-Known Member

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    has it been taken back apart yet? sounds like they damaged it during installation.i put my tank in ,then put in tubing.67 coronet,about the same.it is just a tight fit grommet.
     
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    • Cmmopar

      Cmmopar Well-Known Member

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      • moparnation74

        moparnation74 Well-Known Member

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        Is the filler tube itself in good shape?

        Does sound like someone got rough with the seal...

        Vent tube should be easy to test...remove the short rubber hose and blow ai r through it...
         
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        • 67GTX440

          67GTX440 Well-Known Member

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          The seal I provided is a double lip seal from filler neck supply company like the one on ebay. I note on the ebay link the second lip goes on the outside of the tank. They looked at the old tank seal and it did not have the second lip on the outside of the tank, so assumed the second lip on the new seal went inside the tank and installed it upside down. Should this make a whole lot of difference whether the second seal is on the pipe inside of the tank or on the pipe outside of the tank? They are trying to tell me I provided a defective grommet, but would installing it upside down somehow screw up the function of the second lip design?
           
        • 67GTX440

          67GTX440 Well-Known Member

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          The filler tube shows no sign of external corrosion or pinholes. I am not sure if there are any internal moving parts such as a back flow valve in the filler tube. If it is just needs to be a non-corroded chunk of unperforated metal that looks clean on the inside and flows fuel, it seems fine.

          I called Jim's Auto Parts who sells Mopar parts and all things fuel related for this era Mopars. They said they had no clue if there was any thing to fail in a fuel filler pipe. I asked if they had someone who could provide tech support and they said "no". They said their parts were made to duplicate the originals, and they knew nothing other than that.

          I thought this was very strange for a business of all things Mopar serving the restoration market.
           
        • Car Nut

          Car Nut Well-Known Member

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          Sounds like it's leaking at the lock ring.
           
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          • 67GTX440

            67GTX440 Well-Known Member

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            I am thinking they put the grommet in upside down then pushed the filler in. That then caught on the second lip inside the tank and messed up both the primary and secondary seal. Sound logical?

            He said the seal was really tight and in spite of lubing it with silicone, he had to pound on it with a rubber mallet? Pound on what? The tank to drive the tank onto the seal? I may be lucky if it is the seal and not a damaged new gas tank.

            He already told me that if I wanted the grommet put in right, I was going to have to pay additional labor to do it. The estimate to install the gas tank was $160, and they charged me $480 when I picked it up. The difference was supposedly for exhaust work for the supposedly exact fit Spectra-Premium gas tank to clear the rear exhaust. I love dealing with repair shops.
             
            Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
          • Car Nut

            Car Nut Well-Known Member

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            It would take more than fifteen gallons to leak at the filler tube seal though.
             
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            • moparnation74

              moparnation74 Well-Known Member

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              I bet the seal mating surface is bent around that seal.....Who the He## uses a mallet for this....well always a first
               
              Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
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              • 67GTX440

                67GTX440 Well-Known Member

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                Not really. I initially thought the same thing, but the filler goes more into the side of the tank than the top of the tank. The tank obviously fills above the filler level. When you add gas to that level it leaks. When it has leaked down to that level it stops.
                 
              • PurpleBeeper

                PurpleBeeper Well-Known Member

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                "They looked at the old tank seal and it did not have the second lip on the outside of the tank, so assumed the second lip on the new seal went inside the tank and installed it upside down."
                I'm not an expert on '67 GTX's, but whoever designed the double-lip seal had an "inside" & "outside" for a reason. But.... my gut instinct is that they jacked up the seal with the rubber mallet approach or maybe it's kind of "kinked" and not seated fully.

                "It would take more than fifteen gallons to leak at the filler tube seal though."
                This is a good point, but if you're actually flowing fuel through the filler neck into the tank (at the gas station) then fuel is going over the seal.

                If it were me, I'd try to see myself where it's leaking and go from there. I'd also take a good hard look at the old tank vs. new tank (if possible now) to see if the extra exhaust work was warranted. It might be legit.... they might be ripping you off (small claims court only cost $75 in Chicago or you can decline the charge on your credit card. Assume the best, but be prepared for the worse and if they're cheating you write every bad review you can on every website you can think of and call them out by name, but do definitely give them a good fair evaluation of their work and a chance to make it right if they goofed. And yep..... I HATE letting anyone else work on my cars.
                 
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                • 69bfan

                  69bfan FBBO Vendor FBBO Sponsor

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                  The grommet with the double (outside lip) was used on the 1970 B and 1970-1974 E-Bodies. The more popular single lip grommet was used on B-Bodies from 1963 through 1974 with the exception of 1970 B-Bodies and the 67 to 74 A-Bodies. You can use either in any of the above applications with no issues. The taller double lip just gives more of a sealing area to the fuel neck tube.
                  One thing to check for is that years ago, the manufacture of most of these grommets used a rubber material that broke down in fuel and would basically start leaking when exposed to fuel. I just wonder if you happen to have gotten one of these grommets. That manufacture and most others are now using a nitrile material which is not affected by the fuel.
                  You did say that it was leaking at the inlet tube location, so just verify that as some of the reproduction fuel sending units are using a much thinner lock ring which will not seal the sending unit to the tank.
                  Personally, I think that I would try to locate some local Mopar loyalist within your area and see if they can recommend a shop. Any shop that looks for a larger hammer to solve the issue is just looking for a quick fix and not what is causing the issue.
                   
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                  • R/T

                    R/T Well-Known Member

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                    No one touches my car- sounds like you should pick up another seal , this time give the guy some vaseline to lube the rubber, anything fuel related gets vaseline, it just dissolves later. Also a note to all~ keep/ re-use the original thicker pick-up lock ring, the repros are too thin, Bill Rollick has em the right ones , even has em in stainless. I bought a stainless fuel tank for my each of my mopes and I Love em.
                     
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                    • Gord87

                      Gord87 New Member

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                      Couldn't miss a chance and not to comment on fuel system of a B-body. I spent several weeks working on the fuel delivery of my 68 Coronet. Though in my case, the fuel tank was fine, but the key problem was about the pump and sending unit. It took me ages to determine what exactly is wrong, as this Dodge is still kinda new to me. Anyways, ordered a new sending unit already (https://www.carid.com/fuel-tank-sending-units/), so hope to get it and install some time this week.
                      Man, wish you luck with the fuel tank. Hope you'll make it work soon!
                       
                      Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
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                      • R/T

                        R/T Well-Known Member

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                        Use the old original lock ring!
                         
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                        • GTX MATT

                          GTX MATT Well-Known Member

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                          It sounds to me like its the rubber elbow piece of the filler tube, not the grommet. The grommet usually leaks when the tank is full or almost full, same as the sending unit gasket.

                          I'd bet your rubber elbow isn't tight, is cracked, or not installed on the metal part of the tube well. You could have someone pump some gas in and watch from underneath to see where it starts leaking from. To be honest if it came with a reproduction style clamp its probably not clamped well enough.

                          Also Jim's has a bad reputation.
                           
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                          • Dennis H

                            Dennis H FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                            Yes, Jim's has a bad reputation. 66-70 fuel tank issues should be a stand alone thread category.
                            Besides trial and error, this is Mopar exclusive best done by someone who has done it before. Experience. I needed a new tank. Mopar-Ed in the Central Valley (Californification) screwed around and I had to take a 70 with extra nipple. Note, not Mopar Ed tn. Crap and hell trying to figure it out. Finally had a local shop figure it out. Fuel on the ground, fumes, all that. Valaya Racing, San Jose.
                             
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                            • 67GTX440

                              67GTX440 Well-Known Member

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                              Got this resolved.

                              They reinstalled the double lip grommet with the double lip on the outside of the tank this time at my request and it still leaked a gusher. Bought an OER fuel filler to gas tank grommet MF296 from Summit and had them install it. Basic single seal gasket. Solved the problem. I bought the first grommet from a google search from Filler Neck Supply Company in Spokane Valley, WA. The part number on the part they sent is the same as the part for a 67 GTX per their web site. While I had the two off, her were the differences. OER much harder rubber and thinner groove where grommet seals to tank. Inside dimension of OER is 1 and 7/8" whereas the Filler Neck Supply part has a dimension of 2 and 1/8 inch at the primary seal and 1 and 7/8 at the secondary lip. The fill pipe is 2", so the 1 and 7/8 inch primary opening in the OER part makes a tight seal. No way the part they sent me was going to work. It must be for a 2 and 1/4 or so fill pipe.

                              So I am out $15.95 part plus shipping for their part, $120 to remove and reinstall the tank two additional times when their part leaked installed both ways plus to install the OER part, $60 to tow the car from the gas station to the shop and nine gallons worth of gas on the ground. Thanks Filler Neck Supply Company.

                              Beware that this may be the same double lip grommet being sold on ebay for $25. The OER part from Summit was $15.95 plus shipping. No way in the end I can fault the shop as they used the parts I provided. I can fault a supplier who lists a part for an application that cannot possibly work. They make this part themselves and the part number matched the lookup on their web site of a 67 GTX.
                               
                              Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
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                              • 67GTX440

                                67GTX440 Well-Known Member

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                                Nope. Elbow and vent hoses were replaced as well. Leaking at the elbow was why I started the process and decided a good time to replace the tank.
                                 
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