Holley Sniper EFI and Hyperspark. Help needed.

[BeepBeepRR]

I was working on the car today and it was chugging black smoke. I looked at the AFR and it was at 35.6% I was like Holy ****... Thats why it was running like crap. Anyhow so I delete that config and re run the wizard. The wizard setup went fine. As a base I set the initial timing at 15 BTDC and WOT at 36. Got that all set up. Chose Hyperspark as the means of ignition. All is well. I start the car back up again and it starts right up but still chugging black smoke.

So I shut it down and save the tune to the sdcard. I bring that into the house and stick it in the computer and open the sniper software. Start looking at the ignition graph and wow WTF its running 32 degrees of timing and I dont understand why if I set it at 15. The graph looks horrible. Maybe hopefully someone here can tell me wtf I'm doing wrong here. I also downloaded the Terminator X software to look at some global configs there and the ignition on lets say a GM big block is more aligned to what I would expect out of the base timings for the sniper. Here is screen shot of the graph on the sniper timing starting at 32.1 Why would it be so different from one to the other. There is something terribly wrong with the curve set by the Hyperspark.

And a GM big block timing curve

 

[Don Frelier]

I think you may have an O2 sensor problem

 

[BeepBeepRR]

I think you may have an O2 sensor problem

I hope that's the issue. But For some reason the Base config is terrible on the timing. 32 at idle is not good.

 

[Lefty71]

I dont know anything about the EFI/Hyperspark setup, but if it's actually idling at 32 degrees, i would think it would be damn near impossible to start. So, that's gotta be some of level of mis-information, no?? Like that graph is just wrong, and the timing is really more like 15???

 

[BeepBeepRR]

I dont know anything about the EFI/Hyperspark setup, but if it's actually idling at 32 degrees, i would think it would be damn near impossible to start. So, that's gotta be some of level of mis-information, no?? Like that graph is just wrong, and the timing is really more like 15???

I checked the actual timing with my light and Yes it was running 15 degrees. But I think its adding fuel as if its at 32 degrees. THats why its loading up. Does that make sense? I just can't make sense of the tables they have set for the timing. It goes by 3 items to determine the timing. Map kPa, RPM and spark timing. I have ordered an Orange box which is why I went with the Hyperspark in the first place because the orange box took a dump. So I'm going to go back to the old style ignition to see if its something in the hyperpark that went wonky.

 

[Don Frelier]

You need to get a meaningful afr number first.
Yes it can idle at 32 degrees it won't be there when you crank it.
See if you have any diagnostic trouble codes.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

You need to get a meaningful afr number first.
Yes it can idle at 32 degrees it won't be there when you crank it.
See if you have any diagnostic trouble codes.

Not sure how I would find diagnostic trouble codes on this Sniper Hyper setup. Its not like it has a OBD port.

 

[diesel_lv]

What is 35.6% AFR? I understand 35:1 but that would be so lean it wouldn't run. Are you meaning AFR learn or AFR adjust?

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Well thats a good point. But if you think about it. If the thing is thinking its lean wouldn't it make sense that its trying to add fuel to adjust the lean condition? This thing was supposed to self learn. But it apparently went full retard.

Got this from another site. Maybe the o2 is bad. But why all of a sudden.. I guess Bosche **** just breaks like that.
Hmm.. Bad O2? The AFR never moves or changes.

Any chance the O2 is getting free air? But then again, with an AFR of 35 it would have to be in open atmosphere.. lol.

Try unhooking the O2 sensor and see what it does. You definitely don't want to run it too long like that. It will pick up all those bad learns. or at least disable learning while it's running all goofy.

But if the system thinks your at 35AFR, then the injectors will be pushing 100% of duty cycle to try bring it down.

 

[rmchrgr]

The Wizard config is a basic, get-the-car-running tune. It's like a generic blanket that covers all sorts of combinations. What are some of the specs on the car? Does it have a wild cam or something? 35 AFR is not a real reading, that's basically the ECU not reading the sensor correctly or even receiving the signal. Could be RFI too, that plagues a lot of installs.

Obviously you need to make sure the O2 is installed correctly and it's not damaged in any way. Verify the wiring and connectors are good and everything is going where it's supposed to be going. Like said, black smoke generally means it's rich. If the O2 is not reading then the thing might just be dumping fuel but it sounds like there is something missing. Don't run it like that for any length of time.

And unless I'm reading things wrong, using an orange box with a Sniper is like using a wooden wheel on a modern car. I know you can "use" one but you're making things harder than they need to be. Don't want to spend anyone's money but Sniper really needs some sort of digital ignition to work properly. Hyperspark ignition is probably the best choice because it's essentially a plug and play deal. MSD can be made to work. Honestly, I'm not sure how you would even get the Sniper to function with an orange box since it requires a ballast resistor and the Sniper needs 12V in crank and run. I don't think you'd be able to control the timing with it either.

Regardless, it sounds like the car starts and runs so if that's the case, did you synchronize the timing with the ECU? You have to do that if the ECU is controlling the timing. There's a screen to do it in the handheld called static timing. Start the car, go to the screen, turn the function on. Choose a set point, let's say 15 degrees and the ECU will hold it there. While the car is idling, check the timing with a light to verify it's what is being commanded (15 degrees). If not, then you need to turn the distributor to make it sync up with the commanded number. Once you know it's reading correctly you turn off static timing, it's only needed to ensure the distributor is synced with the ECU.

Building a timing table is not hard but you have to know the steps and it needs to be done on a laptop with the software. Watch this video, it should help you figure it out. There is one part that's a little confusing where the guy seems to say that you need to build two different tables for each part of your curve but it's all one table. Building a base fuel table is similar. There's videos for that as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDyA3yTeB5w

Once you have timing and fuel tables built then you save them as individual config files. You incorporate them into a base cal config and save it as a new file. Upload it to the ECU and see how it works. That's your new starting point to get away from the Wizard.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Yes I did the static timing at 15 degrees, I think you guys are on to something with the 02 sensor. The first sniper I installed for my friend the 02 sensor went out within a week. Holley sent him a new one for free. And had no issues after the new o2 sensor. I bet I won't get that lucky. I will get a new 02 sensor before I swap back to the orange box.
I had the car running before with the orange box and the Sniper combo. It works fine. No you can't control the timing with it but it will run and drive without issues. You just don't have the sniper adjusting timing. In the hand held you just set it to use coil- as the crank signal.

I watched the guy install the hyperspark on the mustang in the Holley video. I did the install exactly the same way. However,I did notice in his video he skipped a step that is in the instruction manual. The part he didn't show in the video was pulling the fuel pump fuse and rotating the engine to verify static timing under crank. He went right to checking static timing with it running. But I will order a new 02 sensor and swap that out before I go back to the orange box. Hopefully that will fix it if so I can sell or return the new orange box.

 

[rmchrgr]

Sounds like a lot of part swapping. Its pretty hard to kill an 02. They are designed to run for 100k+ miles without ever needing to be replaced.

Can you describe the chain of events that led to your question? Seems like the car was running then “something” happened and...? Were you messing with the timing or fuel tables? If so what were you trying to do? Shouldn’t need to replace parts in that situation. Maybe just re-run the Wizard and see if that clears things up. If not then you need to re-trace your steps and figure out what changed and go back to where you started.

I suggest joining the Holley Sniper forum since it exists for this very thing. Take a data log of the car running, upload it and see if you can get more help there.

My bet is that the things you think you need to replace are still OK and that whatever issues you are having are related to programming.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Here is what I did.

Went out because my friend wanted to take a ride in the roadrunner. So I fired it up he got in and we took off. About a mile into the drive it started running very bad. I pulled over and re ran the wizard. Fired the car up and took off going down a backroad so if something went wrong I could pull off to the side. The road I took was curvey and hills. The car was running but chugging black smoke again. I barely made it up the hill into a neighborhood entrance. I got it stopped in the neighborhood. Re-did the wizard again and then proceeded to try to get back to the house. About 2 miles away. IT was running terrible the whole way back. The entire trip about 4 miles the AFR was reading 35.6%..

I got home and was thinking I have the phasing wrong on the distributor. So I re set TDC and pulled the distributor. Re set the distributor and used the phasing cap to get it phased. Marked the number one position and then locked it down. Set static timing with the hand held and verified 15 degrees. Had to back the distributor up a bit to get actual 15 degrees. Now here is my delema. I have a dial back timing light. I have read that its not reliable to use a dialback with a CD ignition system. But thats all I have. I have not swapped any parts. I have not messed with any fuel/timing curves. I just pulled the SD card and stuck it in my computer to see what they looked like. I didn't want to mess with the curves but noticed the lower side of the rpm range it showing 32 degrees of timing at 500 RPM. The out of curiosity I downloaded the Terminator X software as the Holley forums suggested and opened the GM Big Block config and noticed how that timing was 12 degrees and a smooth ramp. Which got me to thinking the timing curve is messed up.

Those pictures are shown above for comparison. I have not changed any curve in the default stock cam config. So literally nothing has been changed or added to the car since I first installed this Hyperspark. I am going to do some re-wiring under the hood and probably put the Sniper pink wire,The Red wire from the Hyper Spark box and the Pink wire from the distributor on a switched relay to make sure I have clean a solid 12v. Directly from the battery.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

OK for **** and giggles I just reloaded the SD card from the Holley site with a completely fresh set of files. Im going to go install the card and use the stock cam file. I just double checked it with the sniper software and it looks to be normal. 15 down low and 36 up high. So makes me wonder how in the hell the 32 got in there? I will come back with my findings.

This is the base tune timing from the fresh install of the card contents.

This was the one that was on the card prior.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Ok I just went out and installed the card. Ran the wizard and started the car. Right off the bat the AFR was 35.6 with an IAC of 100% I assume the o2 is bad now.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

This video represents exactly what happened to the Roadrunner.

 

[4mulas]

Change the O2 sensor

 

[BeepBeepRR]

I have to get one I see like numbered o2 sensors but not sure they are the same. So Im going to have to buck up and pay for the Holley version at 119.00 for a 40 dollar part lol.

 

[4mulas]

I have to get one I see like numbered o2 sensors but not sure they are the same. So Im going to have to buck up and pay for the Holley version at 119.00 for a 40 dollar part lol.

Bosch 17025 is the sensor. Rock auto has for 67 bucks.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Bosch 17025 is the sensor. Rock auto has for 67 bucks.

Yep was just looking at those. Thanks.. Amazon has them for 34.00 Im going to order 2 just in case.
https://www.amazon.com/YCT-02580170...t=&hvlocphy=1015318&hvtargid=pla-906134738806