Intake Manifold Help!

[emonster6x]

Greetings!

I took the Edelbrock Performer off of my 440 to install a camshaft, and now it won't go back on! It seems to be off a little.

Question is how do you get it back on? It seems to need tweaking, but how?

Any sure fire ways?

 

[moperformance]

what do you mean it won't go back on? Are you sure it isn't backwards, A picture would help. What do you mean by tweaking? Lord they pretty much fall in place.

 

[emonster6x]

it seems that it needs to be pressed down to line up!

 

[moperformance]

If the heads have been milled the distance between them will diminish. are you using a new valley pan? and gaskets?

 

[emonster6x]

Yes I am using a fresh valley pan and gaskets. I had the manifold powder coated and I never removed the heads. It seems to be off just enough that the bolts won't catch and go in. I mean you can get about one side started and the other side won't line up!

 

[Osyman]

Bet you only had the valley pan gasket before. The intake gaskets add height

 

[moperformance]

take the valley pan and gaskets off and lay the manifold straight down inside between the heads. look at the angle of the heads compared to the angle on the intake sides. you may have to have the intake milled to match if it's this far off. I mean if you can see daylight on the top or the bottom (the gap between the two on each side)the heads have been milled one two many times. If this is true the heads should be taken off and milled accordingly on the intake side or every manifold you put on will have to be modified or the vacuum leaks will kill you.
It came apart so it should go back together. use just the valley pan and leave the gaskets.

 

[70rr-brian]

It came apart so it should go back together. use just the valley pan and leave the gaskets.

That's what I am thinking too.

 

[emonster6x]

OK, I'll ditch the gaskets and see what happens!

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

You can't just bolt one side down and try to get the bolts in the other side. I would try to set it up without the gaskets, just a THIN smear of RTV around the ports , both sides of the valley pan, and on the ends on the block. When you bolt down the manifold the RTV will seal and compress to a film and any extra will end up in the engine soon to find its way to the oil pan and into the pump pickup.. Start the 4 corner bolts first then install the inboard bolts. Be sure to torque the bolts per your manual increasing the amount of torque gradually until final spec. Like the others said, it fit before, you didnt change anything. You said you powdercoated it, make sure you remove any powder coat from the bolt holes and mating surfaces. The holes for the bolts are larger to allow fitment on the heads, if you closed up the holes you won't have any "wiggle" room to align the manifold.

 

[emonster6x]

Thanks I got it!

Thanks I got the manifold on! I pitched the paper gaskets and used the valley pan and silicon. It worked!

On another note, when I installed the camshaft, she slid in really easy until the very last cam bearing, at which time I needed to gently tap her in with a rubber mallet. Thinking I messed it up, I did this several times and it always came out and went in tightly.

Waddya think? I used vast amounts of cam pre-lube on this as well.

Anyways the motor is now buttoned up. the crank moves either way as well.

I am just wondering about start up time......

 

[Meep-Meep]

Can you turn the cam easily by hand? If it requires a fair amount of force to turn the cam by itself (no lifters or oil pump drive installed) then I suspect it might be bent slightly. This has happened to me more than once.

 

[emonster6x]

it is really tight! It was a brand new comp cams right out of the box!

 

[condor74]

It should not be that tight. I would try sliding your old cam back in just to make sure it is not the camshaft. If the old cam has the same problem, then you either have a problem with your bearings or the cam bearing bores may not be aligned properly. This is actually fairly common in big block Mopars. Many performance shops offer a line boring service for the cam bearing bores to correct this. The more common solution is to use a "bearing knife" to shave and trim the bearings to allow the cam to turn freely.

Once again, try the old cam and if it has the same problem correct the bearings and ore bores. If it doesnt have a problem, inspect your cam journals for burs.

 

[70RR383]

take the valley pan and gaskets off and lay the manifold straight down inside between the heads. look at the angle of the heads compared to the angle on the intake sides. you may have to have the intake milled to match if it's this far off. I mean if you can see daylight on the top or the bottom (the gap between the two on each side)the heads have been milled one two many times. If this is true the heads should be taken off and milled accordingly on the intake side or every manifold you put on will have to be modified or the vacuum leaks will kill you.
It came apart so it should go back together. use just the valley pan and leave the gaskets.

moperformance... I have a '70 matching 383 roadrunner. Had slight antifreeze white steam out of one tailpipe, but no major coolant level issue. Oil/trans fluid ok. Broke engine down to short block, had the heads milled and pressure tested ok. Reinstalled everything, new felpro head gaskets (no sealant) and immediately had tons of white steam out of both tailpipes, never diminished only got worse and radiator was really low. Oil/trans fluids ok. Had a similar issue putting stock intake back on with new valley pan and paper gaskets on both sides, but it did eventually fit. As you suggest, I will take do the visual check without valley pan, and also reinstall with just valley pan. Do you think this could be the reason i'm burning (alot) coolant on both sides now? I didn't think the 383 had coolant running through the intake but maybe so? Any other ideas/suggestions greatly appreciated before I break it down again. Thanks

 

[moperformance]

The really neat thing about BB mopars is not worry about coolant leaks when changing intakes. Any way.... Pull the plugs and you should be able to tell which ones have water (steam) on the tip (white looking crud) compaired to the ones running clean. The only time I've had this happen was when a crack in the compustion chamber couldn't be seen until the engine got hot and the "crack" opened up. Since the crack was between combustion chambers they were junked.Do you see bubbles in the radiator after the thermostat opens? Another sign is milky oil OR white foam in the pvc cap that fits in one valve cover. Also you may need to have your heads checked for cracks. Are you running any kind of cross over in the exhaust? If so maybe it's why your seeing water vapor out both sides. The water is getting to the exhaust some how and hopefully it's in only one head. Let us know how your doing k? Good Luck!

 

[70RR383]

The really neat thing about BB mopars is not worry about coolant leaks when changing intakes. Any way.... Pull the plugs and you should be able to tell which ones have water (steam) on the tip (white looking crud) compaired to the ones running clean. The only time I've had this happen was when a crack in the compustion chamber couldn't be seen until the engine got hot and the "crack" opened up. Since the crack was between combustion chambers they were junked.Do you see bubbles in the radiator after the thermostat opens? Another sign is milky oil OR white foam in the pvc cap that fits in one valve cover. Also you may need to have your heads checked for cracks. Are you running any kind of cross over in the exhaust? If so maybe it's why your seeing water vapor out both sides. The water is getting to the exhaust some how and hopefully it's in only one head. Let us know how your doing k? Good Luck!

moperformance..thanks for the reply.

About an hour after I ran it I pulled the plugs on the driver side and they were dry but were a little whitish on top.

What prompted me to remove the heads is that i was getting slight steam out of passenger exhaust only (no crossover, car is basically all stock). Now I get a huge amount of white steam out of both tailpipes. The only things that have changed are that the heads were milled and checked out ok for cracks and I installed new head gaskets, the steel rimmed ones that came in a full felpro set. Oil is clean and full. The antifreeze level went down so fast I didnt have a chance to see if bubbles were there. I torqued the heads using the sequence from the shop manual, first 50# then to 70#. Only cleaned the block deck and head surface with brake cleaner and did not use any sealant. Just can't figure out how this work would lead to so much white steam from both tailpipes. Maybe I should be using a different type of head gasket? with sealant?

 

[condor74]

how much steam is a lot? Cold mornings and humid conditions can cause a lot of steam and it is not coming from any coolant issues. Also, it is not uncommon for coolant to fall into the exhaust (and the cylinders) when the heads are removed. The coolant could have dropped because you had an air pocket before you started it. If you can get the coolant level to stabilize and let the engine warm up, double check for leaks then.

You should not need any sealant on the felpro head gaskets. Coolant can really only get into the engine a few different ways. Head gasket, cracked head, cracked block. Intake manifold does not have coolant passages. You may have to remove the heads and have them reinspected. Are the dowles still on the deck of the block? Make sure your deck is free of old gasket material and debris. Keep us posted on what you find.

 

[moperformance]

If you can borrow a set of known good heads to put on your engine this would break the problem in half (for the most part). either the prob is in the heads, the block or the mating surfaces (gaskets) Is it the correct gasket set? These are about all of the questions that I know to ask.
Keep us posted.

 

[70RR383]

condor74 and moperformance.. good info. I called the machine shop (Shacklett Machine, Nashville, TN) who milled and pressure tested the heads, for ideas. John told me to pull all the plugs, have someone turn the engine, and watch each spark plug hole for any coolant discharge. If I don’t see any, then it may just be accumulated coolant in the exhaust pipe/mufflers. He said that if I don’t see any liquid at any of the plug holes, then re-install the plugs and run the engine until it burns out of the pipes/mufflers. I didn't let it run very long because of the amount of white steam.... it looked like a fog had moved into my yard...

Made me remember that when I broke the engine down, I first removed the exhaust manifolds, and when I lifted the head off, a lot of coolant dumped down the side of the engine, and the propped up exhaust pipe flange was there… maybe coolant poured down into the exhaust pipe. Then when I started it, it created a lot of steam from both pipes, much more than like on a cold morning. When I get back from out of town I will try this, and let you all know, hopefully that's it.