My shift points are pretty close to that taking onto account I have a 3:55 end. My 3rd gear hits at around 65MPH under full throttle. Anything less it’s in 3rd before 25MPH. 1-2 is there around 12MPH under closed throttle. Everything I’ve read about the older 727’s ‘on-demand’ shifting or passing gear only happens when it’s floored assuming the rod is adjusted properly as you’ve described. There isn’t any part throttle kick down or a delay in shift without WOT. This came with the later 727’s I think post-’66 or later. Older trans can be modified to obtain a part throttle kick down with a kit and/or some governor mod’s but haven’t come across anyone that’s done this. Adjusting the rod gets very slight changes...at least as I’ve played with this.
Kickdown fitting 64 Sport Fury 426
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You are correct, it has to be below a certain mph before you can get a downshift with the WOT on the cable shift trans. If I really need it there's a button on my dash that has a "2" on it
What a coincidence! I got one of those there '2 buttons' too on my dash. Yeah, I have fun playing enough with them to make my own shift points. lolYou are correct, it has to be below a certain mph before you can get a downshift with the WOT on the cable shift trans. If I really need it there's a button on my dash that has a "2" on it
Nate S
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Most of the discussion has been about getting that initial upshift a bit later. Getting back down always requires WOT with pre-'71 units. (unless modified or push the button).
There are two discussions going on: Shift points/up shifts and (2) downshifts only got by flooring it on early 727's. My bad injecting the latter, and you're right on later 727's giving partial throttle downshifting. I thought this came around after '66 when the cable was gone; but you mention '71 so I'm off on that. Okay, back to up shifts or the desire to accomplish later shift points, the chart khryslerkid posted, far as I know, is what it is with a correct kick down rod adjustment. I'm no expert; but from what I've fiddled with, you get just a slight adjustment, a few MPH or RPM delay in up shifting unless doing some modifications to the trans. I got this slight delay btw 1st and 2nd, no change though with 2nd to 3rd. I can lay on the throttle to just before opening the secondaries and I'm still hitting 3rd by 25MPH. There's no tweeners here with the old 727's. Hope you can tell me I'm full a chit and owe you a beer.
Nate S
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Ron H and Khryslerkid, what you state is correct. The other half of the story though is that few of these cars are driving around with an original Carter 3611-S AFB. The aftermarket carbs, even with “Mopar” adapters often have the throttle cable connection point farther from the throttle shaft. This means the kickdown linkage moves farther. If we establish the WOT point as KK described, then for the balance of the travel the linkage is less compressed and the shifts will be at lower RPM/speed.
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You need to understand both ends of this adjustment to fully grasp what is happening. Thats why we got onto the downshift topic. No harm done IMO.
Ron I think you can still lengthen the rod just a bit and get your shift points where you want them. Disconnect the rod from the carb, turn the adjuster out one or two turns. Take it for a drive and see how it does. If it doesn't make any difference try another turn or two out. Just check the carbs WOT and the rod travel to make sure the transmission lever is not bottomed out and holding your carb from opening up all the way. If it is already bottomed out then it is what it is. I would look internally for more adjustment if this is the case.
When I first got this '62 on the road I had set the throttle and rod all the way back at WOT and then backed it off a 1/4". Well I had third gear by 25 mph. I started adjusting the rod and it took maybe two or three small adjustments before it finally started to make a difference. Then one more adjustment and it was too far so I backed it off one turn and it was perfect.
I'm working with two inline Edelbrocks and had to modify the throttle rod because I can not find a original BB, inline two four barrel rod anywhere. One of these days I might get lucky.
Bet you thought this thread might pass on into the sunset? lol. Okay, to spotlight a comment earlier, I think it was said that a shift delay (up shift) could be obtained by only the rod adjustment...I mean beyond what KK's chart for 2nd to 3rd shift points for idle ranges. A shift to 3rd gear is going to happen at those charted points (WOT aside). A half throttle, say just before opening the secondaries, will still have you in 3rd gear by around 25 mph same as it would under light throttle. The charted shift points of course are assuming the rod is adjusted correctly and there isn't more delay to be had (beyond the charted shift points). Reason I post here is I got the impression this may not be the case, contrary to what I understand about these old 727's unless some non-stock modifications are made. I may be miss-understanding the post about getting an up shift at 50 or 60 mph without going WOT. My trans acts pretty spot on with the chart.
Nate S
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You're right. It's not the "off the gas" figures on the chart or the WOT figures on the chart. There's a lot of space in between.
The linkage pushes the kickdown valve "left". As the spring compresses it increases the pressure in that blue line which holds it in any given gear longer. Eventually the kickdown physically shoves the throttle valve over, putting full line pressure in the blue line. If you don't compress that spring at all you get those early shifts. Trick is having the entire throw of the throttle match the entire throw of the KD valve. Most early shifting cars have the linkage only start compressing that spring at half throttle. My '64 original stock tranny goes into 2nd in the high teens and if farther into it 3rd at 50-60. WOT is that much higher of course.
The linkage pushes the kickdown valve "left". As the spring compresses it increases the pressure in that blue line which holds it in any given gear longer. Eventually the kickdown physically shoves the throttle valve over, putting full line pressure in the blue line. If you don't compress that spring at all you get those early shifts. Trick is having the entire throw of the throttle match the entire throw of the KD valve. Most early shifting cars have the linkage only start compressing that spring at half throttle. My '64 original stock tranny goes into 2nd in the high teens and if farther into it 3rd at 50-60. WOT is that much higher of course.
Nate S
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Nope, no different at all. Same mechanism and construction. Not completely sure the spring between the kickdown and throttle valves is identical but certainly swappable.
Nate S
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Just checked, spring is the same in '68 1949847.
Nate S
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One reason it may be different is the linkage itself. Look at the upper pivot. Shorter on the input, longer on the output. This moves the KD lever faster for the same throttle motion. We don't get this with the one-piece so we simply need to start more compressed.
my KD is stock piece, was initially a 2bbl. Adapter on it accommodates the added length. The rod assembly in your photo #54 post looks like a later 60's set up no? If I follow, the rod I have may not be fully compatible to do what you're describing. You mention on your #49 post "Trick is having the entire throw of the throttle match the entire throw of the KD valve." And the shifting action you describe on your '64 is what I'd like to accomplish. Aside from relocating the rod connection nearer to the throttle shaft (you mentioned in earlier post), did you make any other changes such as a different KD rod? Thanks
Nate S
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I was mostly pointing out that the later multi-piece units might have had different performance due to different geometry. I have the one piece rod too. Mine was original on a ‘64 Imperial with 413 so all the same geometry as a stock 426 4bbl. The only change I made was moving the connection closer to the pivot. Nothing else. Putting in a modified governor soon though.
Like to hear how the governor install works. In any case, the shifting action you're getting is my hunt down. Appreciate the advice you've taken time to post!
Nate S
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There are plenty of people who go back in the stock-ish direction too and want this stuff. I wouldn’t throw it out. Could probably fetch a few bucks if you describe it accurately. Last year I would have given you a good buck for a set when I found that the 361-2bbl is not the same as the 383-4bbl.
I'm using the factory rod AND Aftermarket intake & carb so yes.
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