Gunner1
Well-Known Member
A lot of cams have some advance built into them. A 104LS on a 102 ICL is gonna build some brutal mid range. My 400 Chevy ran a 105 on a 99ICL. It was amazing. Can’t wait to see the outcome.
LemonWedge 470 build thread
- Thread starter LemonWedge
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LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
Hemi Orange paint has to add at least 10hp, right?
I like to look at piston to valve with checking springs installed at the #1 cylinder. Bolt the head on with few bolts snugged up and the gasket installed. Then you can move the valves with a finger. Bring it to 10 ATDC. Leave the exhaust valve out and look thru the exhaust port at the intake pocket clearance. You could probably do the same and leave the intake out to check the exhaust but at 10 BTDC. If it's all good put the two #1 cylinder spring back on and send it.
Doug
Doug
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
My valvespring tool requires the head off of the block. So can I snug down on my Cometic gasket, back it off again, then re-install on the same gasket. I do have a single left over FelPro .040 head gasket i could also use, so the Cometic is fresh when I torque it down.
also, where can I get springs suitable for this Process? I would think literally anything that will hold the valve closed is fine, what have you used in the past?
lastly, what is the min clearance I’m looking for?
padam
Well-Known Member
Summit (moroso I think) has them.
No problem with using the Cometic. The current motor was done that way. I've even reused them 3 times after running. Using the Fel-Pro would be close enough. Your actual clearance would even be greater with the thicker Cometic. I just got generic hardware store springs about 1"diameter 2" long. Just so they hold the retainer up.
Doug
Gunner1
Well-Known Member
Another random bit is if you are using a Hydraulic cam. Try to find a solid lifter to use for checking. I always had 2 solids I kept for checking due to the soft springs some lifters have. It can throw off your low lift numbers if you're not using the soft checking springs. Solids on a hyd cam let you check with stock springs in place.
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
We had a productive night in the shop last night. Some good news, and more hurdles to jump.
First the good news: I used some simple hardware store springs and mocked up #1 with a couple of length-check pushrods I have. The tightest spot I have is on the intake side @ 9* ATDC; .122”. On the exhaust side it was also @ 9* BTDC; .234”. Andy F’s book calls .100” the minimum with steel rods, so I think we’re good to go on the P to V measurement.
I could see through the exhaust port that the exhaust valve fits nicely into the piston relief. I couldnt see the intake (didn’t remove the exhaust valve as per Doug’s recommendation), but I measured the valve relief against the TF 2.19” valve. It looked large enough. When I push both valves down against the piston, they land at exactly the same ht, intake and exhaust. This tells me the the valve must be in the pocket, since the Icon pistons reliefs are at the same ht.
On the flip side of the coin and as expected, My current 3/8” 440Source pushrods are too short. I mocked up a new length with my length check pushrods, but I don’t have a cup-tip that fits them, so I just used the end of the smallish rod as the cup. I’m not sure exactly how to accurately decipher the difference between this and a properly cupped tip, so while I’m sure I can be close, it does leave a little doubt in my mind.
sidebar: I assume with ball-end adjuster studs, the optimum location of the stud is with the thread barely showing at the bottom For maximum thread engagement, but minimum extension of the ball. Am I correct?
Checking the sweep of the rockers on the valve tips; the rocker roller wheels contact point starts at about the center of the valve, possibly inside of center, moves to not quite 2/3 toward the outside at mid lift, then finish back slightly inside center again at max lift. it’s not optimum, but I don’t believe it’s problematic and I’m going to send it.
Lastly, I learned that my rocker shaft stud kit that worked nicely in my Stealth heads does not fit with these TrickFlow heads. They are too long at the oiling locations, and too short at the blind locations. I cobbled some stuff together last night for the needs at hand, but I’ll have to get a new stud-kit. It’s amazing how these little things add up. $$$$$.
First the good news: I used some simple hardware store springs and mocked up #1 with a couple of length-check pushrods I have. The tightest spot I have is on the intake side @ 9* ATDC; .122”. On the exhaust side it was also @ 9* BTDC; .234”. Andy F’s book calls .100” the minimum with steel rods, so I think we’re good to go on the P to V measurement.
I could see through the exhaust port that the exhaust valve fits nicely into the piston relief. I couldnt see the intake (didn’t remove the exhaust valve as per Doug’s recommendation), but I measured the valve relief against the TF 2.19” valve. It looked large enough. When I push both valves down against the piston, they land at exactly the same ht, intake and exhaust. This tells me the the valve must be in the pocket, since the Icon pistons reliefs are at the same ht.
On the flip side of the coin and as expected, My current 3/8” 440Source pushrods are too short. I mocked up a new length with my length check pushrods, but I don’t have a cup-tip that fits them, so I just used the end of the smallish rod as the cup. I’m not sure exactly how to accurately decipher the difference between this and a properly cupped tip, so while I’m sure I can be close, it does leave a little doubt in my mind.
sidebar: I assume with ball-end adjuster studs, the optimum location of the stud is with the thread barely showing at the bottom For maximum thread engagement, but minimum extension of the ball. Am I correct?
Checking the sweep of the rockers on the valve tips; the rocker roller wheels contact point starts at about the center of the valve, possibly inside of center, moves to not quite 2/3 toward the outside at mid lift, then finish back slightly inside center again at max lift. it’s not optimum, but I don’t believe it’s problematic and I’m going to send it.
Lastly, I learned that my rocker shaft stud kit that worked nicely in my Stealth heads does not fit with these TrickFlow heads. They are too long at the oiling locations, and too short at the blind locations. I cobbled some stuff together last night for the needs at hand, but I’ll have to get a new stud-kit. It’s amazing how these little things add up. $$$$$.
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LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
When ordering pushrods, my Thoughts are to stay away from oil-through units, as a way to divert more oil to the bottom end. My lifters do oil through the cup, but I’m thinking that’s where I would like the lifter galley flow to end. The rockers have an oiling hole at the pushrod side to spray onto the cup & ball. I think that will be sufficient for that area.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
——
For what it’s worth, both my wedge and hemi have oil-through pushrods from Smith. My wedge has the Victor MW heads with Hughes rocker system. Looking good over there LW.
Oil thru are fine as long as the hole is small. I ran .090" and it killed pressure. Those push rods now have roll pins pressed in. The orifice is now about .050" (still probably to large) but it works fine. Make sure you have room for the pushrod cup to clear the under side of the rocker in all lift positions. Also check the clearance with the valve closed between the retainer and rocker. A piece of .060" fishing line works well. If it pulls through the clearance is good.
Doug
Doug
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
Uggghhhh……….
Smith Bros is 4+ weeks out. Manton can get it turned around quickly, but they’re $120 more.
What to do.
Smith Bros is 4+ weeks out. Manton can get it turned around quickly, but they’re $120 more.
What to do.
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
Doug and Mike, what oil pump do you guys use? And how elaborate is your oiling modifications? My setup is pretty rudimentary, with simply a Melling HV pump, and deep pan and windage tray. Everything else is stock. Thus my thoughts of limiting oil to the upper end. This thing is gonna spin, and I don’t want to starve the bearings.
I was going to mention, guess I should have. Melling HV pump. Milodon pan and 3/8” tube pick up. No other mods made to the oiling. Oil pressure is 60-70, rock solid and zero issues. I also run a #4 line to my oil pressure gauge so it’s instantly accurate.
** also run the same Melling HV pump on the hemi but with the external oil line to the pickup.
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May be overkill. Melling HV pump body and gears. Indy cover single line external feed. Swinging pick up. Johnson Crank scraper. Charlies trap door pan. Screen windage tray.
Doug
Doug
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
Nice setup indeed. Like everything else with that car….. TOP NOTCH! Reassuring to know that the same Melling pump I’m using is keeping that beast happy.
Manton Pushrods for the win. A set of their Series 5 - 3/8” x .095 wall heat treated sticks is on order. 3-4 days mfg time plus shipping time and they’ll be here.
Manton Pushrods for the win. A set of their Series 5 - 3/8” x .095 wall heat treated sticks is on order. 3-4 days mfg time plus shipping time and they’ll be here.
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Again for me maybe overkill 7/16"×.165" . Best Machine built a friends motor with a similar cam to mine. It has 1/2"
Doug
Doug
Mike Gaines
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I used 440 Source Main Caps plus their Girdle on my 505" in my 66 Coronet, over 150 runs AND 10.04 at 130.51. No problems. I sold it to a fellow in Denmark several years ago and he has been driving it to car shows, etc for years with no iissues.
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