Manifolds or headers?

Mopar Exhaust Systems

  1. FrnkNsteen

    FrnkNsteen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    873
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Location:
    Indiana
    Local Time:
    7:51 AM
    Quick question for you guys. I am getting ready to drop off my motor (440) at the machine shop to start getting it rebuilt for my Charger. I don't know what the exact internals will be yet. We will talk about that when I bring it there. His recommendation was a good set of forged pistons that will put us at around 9.25CR. Beyond that, we haven't talked specifics yet.

    My plan is that I just want a good low range torque motor for the street. I don't race, but like to get on it from time to time, so I want something that will perform well in that 1500 - 5000 rpm range. I want to maintain a decent amount of vacuum to run the headlights, AC controls, etc. Plus, I'm planning to put the factory AC back in the car.

    I am converting it to 4spd, and don't want to have to mess with header and clutch linkage interference like I did on my 4spd Cuda (400 4spd). I have a couple sets of HP manifolds, so I was thinking of going with them over headers.

    Not to mention, with all the other costs of rebuilding the car, it wouldn't hurt my feelings to avoid the extra cost of headers, custom Z-bars, or hydraulic clutches!!

    My question is this,... Can I get away with using the HP manifolds and still get good low end torque for the street. I know,.... everyone says manifolds don't flow as well, but I'm not building a hi-rpm race car. I just want something with some good grunt out of the hole.

    If so, ... Can someone recommend a good cam to go with this type of setup. I talked briefly to the engine guy. He's an old school engine builder around here with a great reputation. I will see what he recommends, but would also appreciate opinions from here to see how they match up.

    Please let me know your thoughts.
    Thanks!
     
  2. Darter6

    Darter6 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

    Messages:
    4,643
    Likes Received:
    5028
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Location:
    Nevada
    Local Time:
    6:51 AM
    Unless you are building a 600+ HP engine, the HP manifolds on a street car only will do the job. I am a fan of the "Thumper" cams from Comp.Good sounding and work well on a street car. My 2 cents.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Yatzee

      Yatzee Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      999
      Likes Received:
      846
      Joined:
      Jun 20, 2015
      Location:
      London
      Local Time:
      7:51 AM
      If your sticking with the OE intake, there's no reason to really go with headers because "flow in/flow out" from the chambers is not going to be that much different. I've used Voodoo cams by Lunati and I really like their performance. I do recommend if you buy this brand of cam, go with a kit that includes their lifters - they are matched in material for longevity. HP manifolds flow very well so I'd use them first to see what results you get and if you're satisfied. Installing headers presents a whole new set of expenses that you may not be able to justify in performance results.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • moparnation74

        moparnation74 Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        10,506
        Likes Received:
        18004
        Joined:
        Mar 27, 2014
        Location:
        OHIO
        Local Time:
        6:51 AM
        Hp manifolds are basically cast iron shorty headers.....I agree above on the 600+ HP range

        Many tests have been done comparing headers to the HP manifolds and they are almost equal on performance.....
         
        • Agree Agree x 5
        • Disagree Disagree x 2
        • Like Like x 1
        • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
        • 451Mopar

          451Mopar Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          2,437
          Likes Received:
          1749
          Joined:
          Oct 25, 2011
          Location:
          Aurora, CO
          Local Time:
          5:51 AM
          Sounds like the manifolds would be fine for what your doing. You can always throw headers on it at a later date if you need more power.
           
          • Agree Agree x 3
          • lewtot184

            lewtot184 Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            4,655
            Likes Received:
            2948
            Joined:
            Aug 21, 2011
            Location:
            indianapolis
            Local Time:
            7:51 AM
            I ran a summit 6401 cam (these lobes are available thru howards which would be a little more accurate than summits) with stock intake and exhaust manifolds. I was impressed with the low end and mid-range torque.
             
          • Bill Monk

            Bill Monk Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            2,238
            Likes Received:
            2625
            Joined:
            Feb 27, 2017
            Location:
            West Virginia
            Local Time:
            7:51 AM
            Manifolds, I like the look of headers but they are expensive and have issues you won't have with the manifolds
             
            • Agree Agree x 4
            • Like Like x 1
            • FrnkNsteen

              FrnkNsteen Well-Known Member

              Messages:
              709
              Likes Received:
              873
              Joined:
              Apr 11, 2011
              Location:
              Indiana
              Local Time:
              7:51 AM
              Thanks guys! Sounds like manifolds it is. I was thinking about going with an Edelbrock performer dual plane intake, but it sounds like it wouldn't gain me much if I am going with stock HP manifolds.

              Am I correct in thinking that?

              For stock intakes,... is there any difference in the standard 440s and the 440 HPs in regards to the intakes. I have a couple stock 440 intakes, but they are not off HP motors. Ok to use? or would I gain a little HP or Torque by going to the performer intake? I know this is the exhaust area,.... just trying to find the right package to go with the stock HP manifolds.

              Oh,... one last thing. A little early for it, but what size exhaust works well with HP manifolds? I've heard going too big exhaust can lose torque. Would I go with a 2 1/4 or 2 1/2" pipes and super turbo style mufflers? Seems like bigger than that wouldn't help anything if running manifolds.
               
            • Bill Monk

              Bill Monk Well-Known Member

              Messages:
              2,238
              Likes Received:
              2625
              Joined:
              Feb 27, 2017
              Location:
              West Virginia
              Local Time:
              7:51 AM
              2 1/2 and use an H or X pipe
               
              • Agree Agree x 4
              • terzmo

                terzmo Well-Known Member

                Messages:
                1,492
                Likes Received:
                471
                Joined:
                Jul 6, 2011
                Location:
                buffalo,ny
                Local Time:
                7:51 AM
                I'd run manifolds with a mini starter ...and later alot easier to change the starter than capturing it with headers
                 
                • Agree Agree x 2
                • Like Like x 1
                • dadsbee

                  dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

                  Messages:
                  9,194
                  Likes Received:
                  21734
                  Joined:
                  Jan 29, 2018
                  Location:
                  Midland Ontario, Canada
                  Local Time:
                  7:51 AM
                  I got that header thing out of my system when I was 18 years old... Put the manifolds back when I was older and wiser at 26! Now at 55 I question what I was ever thinking to deal with the nonsense of burnt plug wires, leaking gaskets, etc. That and IMHO stock HP exhaust manifolds look nicer on a B body.
                   
                  • Agree Agree x 7
                  • FrnkNsteen

                    FrnkNsteen Well-Known Member

                    Messages:
                    709
                    Likes Received:
                    873
                    Joined:
                    Apr 11, 2011
                    Location:
                    Indiana
                    Local Time:
                    7:51 AM
                    Interestingly enough,.... I was doing some readings on the advantages of adding an H or X pipe....

                    Pretty much everyone agrees that you can see some gain by adding a crossover pipe. Most agree that an H pipe helps more in lower RPM ranges and an X pipe helps more in upper RPM ranges.

                    What was interesting though, was a test that Engine Masters ran on the dyno. They took a motor and ran it on the dyno with no crossover exhaust and Gibson straight through mufflers. They then added an H pipe to the exhaust, while keeping everything else the same, including the length of the pipes and location of the mufflers, and ran it on the dyno again. Then they changed the crossover to an X pipe and repeated it. They ran each configuration 3 times and averaged the data from each run.

                    What they found was the H pipe added to the HP and torque curve up to about 4500 RPM, while the X Pipe mostly improved HP/torque in the upper part of the RPM range Proved what others have said. That being said,... the increases in torque/HP were only about 1.5 - 2 points though for a street car (might notice a difference in drag times though). They DID say the biggest thing they noticed was the sound. They said the X pipe sounded the best and was quieter at idle.

                    Hard to say if a person could even feel a 1.5 - 2 point difference in the seat of the pants, and if it is even worth the extra money to have either installed.

                    Link:
                     
                    • Thanks! Thanks! x 3
                    • Agree Agree x 2
                    • Like Like x 1
                    • Bill Monk

                      Bill Monk Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      2,238
                      Likes Received:
                      2625
                      Joined:
                      Feb 27, 2017
                      Location:
                      West Virginia
                      Local Time:
                      7:51 AM
                      Interesting, thanks for posting
                       
                    • FrnkNsteen

                      FrnkNsteen Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      709
                      Likes Received:
                      873
                      Joined:
                      Apr 11, 2011
                      Location:
                      Indiana
                      Local Time:
                      7:51 AM
                      Thanks guys. I think I will go with the HP Manifolds on this car, as this will be our cruiser, get on it for fun, car. I've got the Cuda to play with if I want to start playing with building more performance. It has the 400 in it with Schumacher Tri-y headers and the Magnaflow exhaust.

                      I'm with you Dadsbee,... I'm 51 now and don't feel the need to mess with everything the headers can cause on both cars. You make a good point!
                       
                    • 67belvedere/225

                      67belvedere/225 Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      936
                      Likes Received:
                      767
                      Joined:
                      Nov 10, 2016
                      Location:
                      montreal
                      Local Time:
                      7:51 AM
                      if you go headers , have them ceramic coated, and you need to keep tightening those bolts the first weeks . or you blow gaskets .
                      have found
                      good luck
                       
                      • Agree Agree x 1
                      • lewtot184

                        lewtot184 Well-Known Member

                        Messages:
                        4,655
                        Likes Received:
                        2948
                        Joined:
                        Aug 21, 2011
                        Location:
                        indianapolis
                        Local Time:
                        7:51 AM
                        I've been running tti headers for years without any kind of issue. I've used cast manifolds for years with no issue. I don't understand why people have exhaust problems.
                         
                        • Agree Agree x 8
                        • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                        • Glenwood

                          Glenwood FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

                          Messages:
                          2,926
                          Likes Received:
                          2871
                          Joined:
                          Jun 19, 2015
                          Location:
                          Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
                          Local Time:
                          7:51 AM
                          I put hp manifolds on my newly built rb. The lunati cam i chose (10230703) says it should be used with headers on their spec, but i used manifolds anyway. They seem to build up too much heat, although probably my imagination. They seem to have a different tone than headers usually do, but I'm half deaf these days so who knows!
                          One problem i found is that the passenger side is very close to the rocker cover and made it impossible to switch to aluminum rocker covers. I will likely replace them with headers soon.
                           
                          Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
                          • Like Like x 1
                          • 440+6

                            440+6 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

                            Messages:
                            3,445
                            Likes Received:
                            3126
                            Joined:
                            Oct 2, 2012
                            Location:
                            Farmington, Michigan
                            Local Time:
                            7:51 AM
                            Exactly!
                             
                          • Dennis H

                            Dennis H FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

                            Messages:
                            14,957
                            Likes Received:
                            18695
                            Joined:
                            Jul 11, 2010
                            Location:
                            San Jose
                            Local Time:
                            6:51 AM
                            Headers. Less weight, cooler if ceramic. Underhood temps are 100 degrees cooler than stock confirmed by the laser temp gun. With an aluminum bell housing, tubular uca's and the TTI's, the squat actually changed. Every pound taken off these big girls is good. Carry the manifolds out to the shed and you will have your answer.
                             
                            • Agree Agree x 6
                            • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                            • PurpleBeeper

                              PurpleBeeper Well-Known Member

                              Messages:
                              4,690
                              Likes Received:
                              3424
                              Joined:
                              Mar 20, 2011
                              Location:
                              Chicago
                              Local Time:
                              6:51 AM
                              Wow.... I feel like a salmon swimming up-stream. HEADERS ALL DAY LONG. I've run Heddman, big tube Heddman & big tube Hooker & never had a z-bar issue or clearance problem of any type. Changing starters is an issue, but that's it. I haven't run stock style manifolds in over 30yrs and probably never will again. I have however switched to stock-style mufflers and don't run cherry bombs any more.
                               
                              • Agree Agree x 6
                              • Like Like x 2
                              1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.