Metallic Noise

[67 GTX]

Good Morning,

I've been hearing a noise in my car that appears to be at the front of the motor, but I believe that is just noise propogating to that point from the transmission. It sounds like something is punching something metallic.

But when I step on the clutch, the noise goes away. When the noise first started, I tried adjusting the clutch and the noise stayed.

Any movement on the clutch pedal stops the noise.
I checked the basic stuff, and nothing appears to be loose. The clutch return spring isn't loose, and neither was the clutch fork.

Only thing I can think of is maybe the ball that the clutch fork rides on, or the spring clip on the fork itself are worn, and the vibration is making them bounce a bit?

All the clutch components are new, with roughly 3-5 thousand miles on them.

Please post your theories

 

[moparedtn]

I hate that you're going through something similar to what I just got done solving after much effort, gnashing of teeth and so forth.
Can you make a video (with sound, of course) of the car making the noise and maybe post it on youtube so others can hear it?

Oh, and list all the new stuff by brand and so forth so folks have a feel for what's in the car now.

 

[khryslerkid]

If you push in on the clutch peddle and it stops, sounds like the throw out bearing. They can rattle like that.

 

[Bill Monk]

If you push in on the clutch peddle and it stops, sounds like the throw out bearing. They can rattle like that.

Yep, sounds like the throw out bearing to me

 

[FrnkNsteen]

Yep, sounds like the throw out bearing to me

Agreed. Check adjustment to make sure it is fully disengaging from the pressure plate.

 

[67 GTX]

I can try to post up a video later.

The clutch and everything is the stock mccloud unit.

In terms of the throwout bearing, it thought that if it makes noise when not loaded upon, the noise would get worse when you act on it, as in my pressing the clutch?

 

[moparedtn]

Naw, they raise a fuss when released usually.
You might want to pull the inspection plate off the bellhousing and shine a light up in there to see if there's any contact
between the throwout and the clutch fingers when the pedal is up at normal position.

 

[67 GTX]

Naw, they raise a fuss when released usually.
You might want to pull the inspection plate off the bellhousing and shine a light up in there to see if there's any contact
between the throwout and the clutch fingers when the pedal is up at normal position.

There should be slight contact correct? Just not enough to where the fingers are starting to be acted upon?

I messed with it a bit, but I should set it back to the .60 thousandths clearance again.

 

[FrnkNsteen]

No,... Should not be touching. If it is touching, it will do one of two things..... It will wear on the pressure plate fingers or bearing face, or it can force it to spin when not being used and burn out your bearing early. I have mine set around .060" - .080" (1/16" - 3-32")

 

[67 GTX]

So if it isn't touching, is it the tension from the clutch return spring that stops it from bouncing around?

Those gaps are usually what I set mine to as well.

 

[eldubb440]

No,... Should not be touching. If it is touching, it will do one of two things..... It will wear on the pressure plate fingers or bearing face, or it can force it to spin when not being used and burn out your bearing early. I have mine set around .060" - .080" (1/16" - 3-32")

we used to call it "toe play"....... the distance you push the pedal before it begins to engage

 

[wyrmrider]

sometimes with a diaphragm pressure plate I used more toe play so the fingers would not over center- or a stop under the pedal
x3 on the no touch

 

[FrnkNsteen]

So if it isn't touching, is it the tension from the clutch return spring that stops it from bouncing around?

Well, yes and no,... Yes, the clutch return spring should keep it sitting away from the pressure plate fingers, but no, that doesn't really keep it from "Flopping around". Your throw-out bearing rides on the bearing retainer, so it shouldn't flop around anyway. It should slide nicely forward and back as you step on the clutch pedal and release it.

 

[67 GTX]

Thank you for all the replies. I'll try resetting my clutch gap and then go from there.

This noise just started last year after the car was sitting for a bit.
I wonder if when I get it going again, if the noise will go away?

Does anyone think I can do any harm by driving the car if the throwout bearing is making noise, and the noise is heard at the front of the motor?

 

[AR67GTX]

Do you mean you can hear the noise standing at the front of the engine or the noise seems to be coming from the front of the engine? If coming from the front of the engine you probably have something else going on. A noisy throw out bearing is not going to strand you unless it really sets up a howl just prior to seizing, but it will probably get on your last nerve while driving it.

 

[67 GTX]

I can hear the noise at the very front of the car, but when I go underneath it does sound like it is coming from the clutch area, and the noise is just propogating forward.

I went under the car and confirmed that I have a .06 gap when fully engaging the clutch. When the clutch is released and, the throwout bearing is slightly touching the fingers on the pressure plate, but not enough to cause it to collapse.
When just moving the pedal through the free play zone, the fingers on the pressure plate do start to move, but it doesn't seem like enough to make the clutch actually start to slip.

I just got off the phone with Passon, and he said if the noise exists when in neutral, then it isn't the throwout bearing, since the bearing isn't moving then.
He said if the noise goes away when I step on the clutch, then it could be something within the pressure plate.

I told him that I have a McLeod 3 finger clutch, and he told me that they have been having issues with their clutches, specifically with the fingers.

I'm going to try and take a video later, and will post it up here if I'm able too.

 

[FrnkNsteen]

Ok,... So now I'm confused and some things aren't making sense....

You're saying you have "a .06" gap when fully engaging the clutch". Define "Engaging the clutch". Do you mean when you fully push the clutch pedal, or when you fully release the pedal and the pressure plate and clutch disc are fully in contact with the flywheel? I'm confused because you say when you release the clutch, the throwout bearing is "Barely touching the fingers on the pressure plate.

If there is no gap when the pedal is fully released (meaning when you say "the throwout bearing is barely touching the fingers of the pressure plate"), when is there a .06" gap? There should be no gap when you are pushing the clutch pedal, because you are using the throwout bearing to disengage the clutch.

I'm also confused by what Passon told you about the throwout bearing "Not turning when it is in neutral". The bearing should only be turning when you push the clutch pedal, as that's only when it contacts the fingers of the pressure plate. Any other time it should be back in it's home position and not turning (because it's not touching anything). Besides that,.... the input shaft will be turning any time the pedal is released and the clutch disc is under pressure from the pressure plate. The only thing different about neutral is there are no gears engaged inside the transmission.

Don't get me wrong,.... the guys at Passon should know WAY more than me, but it could be something wasn't getting communicated well.

Let me put it this way, and someone please tell me if I'm not thinking correctly.... The clutch disc is splined to the input shaft of the transmission, so any time the pedal is released, and the pressure plate is seated,... the input shaft is spinning, whether you are in neutral or not. The throwout bearing should not be spinning unless it is contacting the fingers of the pressure plate, which it should NOT be touching if you are not touching the pedal. So I am having trouble understanding what they are saying about neutral.

They are correct in saying it shouldn't be spinning in neutral (because it shouldn't be touching the fingers)... But the same would be true while driving in gear,.... It should NOT be touching the fingers then either.

 

[FrnkNsteen]

Wait a minute,.... Three finger clutch..... You say that McLeod says they have been having trouble with their clutches, specifically the fingers.... First of all,... Kudos to them for admitting it. That's more than some companies would do, but it makes me wonder if the fingers are loose and flopping around in there.

Can you reach in there (with the car off!!) and push the throwout bearing back and see if the clutch fingers are loose and wiggle around? I would imagine that would make some noise if the fingers are rattling around loosely.

 

[AR67GTX]

TO bearing should not be touching the clutch levers/fingers at all when clutch is released (pedal up). If it is then the old standard of "it's not the TO bearing if the clutch is released" doesn't hold water any longer.
You might call McLeod's technical line and see if they have any ideas. I'm a McLeod fan but I have had one bad pressure plate from them.

 

[67 GTX]

Ok,... So now I'm confused and some things aren't making sense....

You're saying you have "a .06" gap when fully engaging the clutch". Define "Engaging the clutch". Do you mean when you fully push the clutch pedal, or when you fully release the pedal and the pressure plate and clutch disc are fully in contact with the flywheel? I'm confused because you say when you release the clutch, the throwout bearing is "Barely touching the fingers on the pressure plate.

If there is no gap when the pedal is fully released (meaning when you say "the throwout bearing is barely touching the fingers of the pressure plate"), when is there a .06" gap? There should be no gap when you are pushing the clutch pedal, because you are using the throwout bearing to disengage the clutch.

I'm also confused by what Passon told you about the throwout bearing "Not turning when it is in neutral". The bearing should only be turning when you push the clutch pedal, as that's only when it contacts the fingers of the pressure plate. Any other time it should be back in it's home position and not turning (because it's not touching anything). Besides that,.... the input shaft will be turning any time the pedal is released and the clutch disc is under pressure from the pressure plate. The only thing different about neutral is there are no gears engaged inside the transmission.

Don't get me wrong,.... the guys at Passon should know WAY more than me, but it could be something wasn't getting communicated well.

Let me put it this way, and someone please tell me if I'm not thinking correctly.... The clutch disc is splined to the input shaft of the transmission, so any time the pedal is released, and the pressure plate is seated,... the input shaft is spinning, whether you are in neutral or not. The throwout bearing should not be spinning unless it is contacting the fingers of the pressure plate, which it should NOT be touching if you are not touching the pedal. So I am having trouble understanding what they are saying about neutral.

They are correct in saying it shouldn't be spinning in neutral (because it shouldn't be touching the fingers)... But the same would be true while driving in gear,.... It should NOT be touching the fingers then either.

Sorry, I wasn't as clear as I should've been. I had a .06" gap between the flywheel and clutch when fully depressing the clutch pedal.

With this setup, when I release the clutch (let it come all the way up), my throwout bearing was making slight contact with the fingers, causing it to slightly spin.
I understand now this is not ideal, so I adjusted it until it stopped making contact with the fingers.

Upon doing this, the noise still persisted, but still went away when I started depressing the clutch pedal.

Sorry, by neutral I meant trans in neutral, and I'm not acting on the clutch. I should've been clearer there too.
Your thinking of how the setup operates is sound and I agree.

Which leads me to believe the issue could be within the pressure plate; the fingers more exactly. Without a real load on them, perhaps they're moving around, and stop when fully acted on since they're not under tension. For the record, with my original setup, which had the throwout bearing touching the pressure plate at all times, the fingers were not moved at all so I wasn't dragging the clutch. Although, my initial free play on the clutch pedal did start moving the fingers a bit, so I guess I didn't have true free play.

I did speak to McLeod yesterday, and that's where I learned I shouldn't have the throwout bearing always making contact with the pressure plate.

I did inspect everything yesterday, and nothing seemed out of the norm. The fingers didn't move when I touched them, and the fork seemed secure.

Anyone have an idea of how to post a video on here? Or do I have to upload it to youtube then post the link here? I took some videos yesterday that might help show what I'm referring too.