My A12 RR progress with Holley termi x

[ScottyG]

Ok, now I am confused, or misreading, or middle of the night bathroom trips aren't the time for engineering discussions? Lol.

fuel system is different than the F&B intake. the fuel system to me is the tank,pump,lines,regulator,injectors. the intake is F&B but he dont offer a fuel system . or do u mean fuel injection setup as in the F&B INTAKE

 

[ScottyG]

If your Dad is still running only the handheld device for tuning the Sniper, there's a bunch of horsepower being held back.

the car is tune but its still TBI injection. the MPI is better in every way. that's why TBI injection didnt last long when they made it. its either carb or MPI. my dad's car runs like a raped ape don't get me wrong, but MPI is just better. but it dont matter we all have our own opinions. my car is still in the self-learning cause i want to make sure everything is good before i start with the laptop

 

[biomedtechguy]

fuel system is different than the F&B intake. the fuel system to me is the tank,pump,lines,regulator,injectors. the intake is F&B but he dont offer a fuel system . or do u mean fuel injection setup as in the F&B INTAKE

I see what I wrote, I've edited it. My bad.
Yes, the F&B throttlebodies and Indy ModMan intake are what I'm referring to as the "fuel injection setup".
The rest is the fuel system.
Very interested in how that works!!
Congrats on what you've done!

 

[biomedtechguy]

the MPI is better in every way. that's why TBI injection didnt last long when they made it.

AMEN to that!
I had 2 different TBI setups, one on a 1982 Collector Edition Corvette, that was called "Cross-Fire Injection" and was a factory crossram with a BIG fuel injector over each bank of cylinders.
The other TBI setup was on my 89 Chrysler Conquest TSi. I was looking at a MegaSquirt to go with a 16a turbo I had bought, but I sold it beforehand.

 

[TTSaleen]

Nice setup. I love the Holley EFI products as I just recently put their Terminator X Max setup in my 68 Charger.
Good luck with your project!
Ryan

 

[biomedtechguy]

Holley had (and it may still be valid) a patent for a Sniper 3x2 EFI induction system...
I really, really like the FiTech 3x2 setup, initially because "they DID that" meaning they spent the R&D money to bring to market a 3x2 EFI system that is a DIRECT replacement for the Mopar 6bbl and the late 60s big block Chebby Tripower! Just for FiTech to DO that wins a LOT of "feel good" points for me. In my mind, I take their efforts a step further and say they did that for "US" us being the Mopar 6bbl/6-Pack guys, and I guess the BowTie BB guys too. Beyond that, there are 3rd party adapters that allow the Holley 2bbl to replace the Rochester 2bbl, I know that because I considered using the FiTech 6bbl in place of the Rochester Tripower on the 421 in my wife's 65 GTO. That's still an option, but it's less likely since I had the 'chesters professionally "deeply modified" for the parameters of the rebuilt 421.
With my BMP stroker 572 in the works, I've asked FiTech, a FiTech tuning and tech expert, and a few other people who should know "Can the FiTech 6bbl EFI be modded/upgraded to a horsepower output higher than the stated 600 HP limit?" and they all said no. That's why the F&B 6bbl throttlebodies MPI setup is the only option I'm looking at if I want to move up/away from my Promax modded Holley 6bbl carbs. There's a couple of "upgrades" that some do w/the 6bbl carbs, like a 500 CFM center, and the "Direct-->Connection" mechanical 6bbl carbs, but I'm just going to make the most out of the Holley carbs I have when I move them to the 572. The Promax parts makes that easier, and the information on this forum and elsewhere, along with David Vizard's book on "How To Supertune and Modify Holley Carbs" all are a treasure of information.
Last note:
Even though I was already swooning over the FiTech 6bbl EFI, once I got to hold one in my hands in person, THAT really took my appreciation for the build and engineering quality of the product to the highest level.

 

[ScottyG]

Nice setup. I love the Holley EFI products as I just recently put their Terminator X Max setup in my 68 Charger.
Good luck with your project!
Ryan

yes, Holley makes good stuff, cant wait to use the 6bbl setup and have the built engine in the car. the Holley is amazing so far the car feels so strong and amazing. i would love to let anyone drive this car so they can feel that this is light years ahead of the carbs. a12 car or not. this is my day2 mod

 

[ScottyG]

Holley had (and it may still be valid) a patent for a Sniper 3x2 EFI induction system...
I really, really like the FiTech 3x2 setup, initially because "they DID that" meaning they spent the R&D money to bring to market a 3x2 EFI system that is a DIRECT replacement for the Mopar 6bbl and the late 60s big block Chebby Tripower! Just for FiTech to DO that wins a LOT of "feel good" points for me. In my mind, I take their efforts a step further and say they did that for "US" us being the Mopar 6bbl/6-Pack guys, and I guess the BowTie BB guys too. Beyond that, there are 3rd party adapters that allow the Holley 2bbl to replace the Rochester 2bbl, I know that because I considered using the FiTech 6bbl in place of the Rochester Tripower on the 421 in my wife's 65 GTO. That's still an option, but it's less likely since I had the 'chesters professionally "deeply modified" for the parameters of the rebuilt 421.
With my BMP stroker 572 in the works, I've asked FiTech, a FiTech tuning and tech expert, and a few other people who should know "Can the FiTech 6bbl EFI be modded/upgraded to a horsepower output higher than the stated 600 HP limit?" and they all said no. That's why the F&B 6bbl throttlebodies MPI setup is the only option I'm looking at if I want to move up/away from my Promax modded Holley 6bbl carbs. There's a couple of "upgrades" that some do w/the 6bbl carbs, like a 500 CFM center, and the "Direct-->Connection" mechanical 6bbl carbs, but I'm just going to make the most out of the Holley carbs I have when I move them to the 572. The Promax parts makes that easier, and the information on this forum and elsewhere, along with David Vizard's book on "How To Supertune and Modify Holley Carbs" all are a treasure of information.
Last note:
Even though I was already swooning over the FiTech 6bbl EFI, once I got to hold one in my hands in person, THAT really took my appreciation for the build and engineering quality of the product to the highest level.

i think the fitech 6bbl option is decent but lacks HP range! 600hp is nothing. you would think they would offer it with bigger injectors or something? but i think that having the ecu built into the unit itself is the limiting HP factor. just like the Holley sniper unit is built into the side of it. they prob only recommend just enough to be a driver base system instead of a race set up.

 

[70ChargerRT]

the car is tune but its still TBI injection. the MPI is better in every way. that's why TBI injection didnt last long when they made it. its either carb or MPI. my dad's car runs like a raped ape don't get me wrong, but MPI is just better. but it dont matter we all have our own opinions. my car is still in the self-learning cause i want to make sure everything is good before i start with the laptop

Absolutely awesome car and set up but FASTMAN set me straight on the direct injection vs throttle body. He’s tuned more Efi Mopars than anyone On the planet. I was wanting to go Direct but he told me I would be waisting time and money going Direct unless I was pushing over 800 HP and was wanting to race the car. Other wise I would see no real world difference going Direct on a street car application. He told me he would sell me what I want but you asked me for my advice so there you have it. He also said all efi kits need to be tuned by a laptop, like you’re going to do, despite the claims of Holley and man he was right. After he tuned my X-Flo it’s absolutely awesome compared to the self learning claims that Holley state.

 

[70chall440]

Absolutely awesome car and set up but FASTMAN set me straight on the direct injection vs throttle body. He’s tuned more Efi Mopars than anyone On the planet. I was wanting to go Direct but he told me I would be waisting time and money going Direct unless I was pushing over 800 HP and was wanting to race the car. Other wise I would see no real world difference going Direct on a street car application. He told me he would sell me what I want but you asked me for my advice so there you have it. He also said all efi kits need to be tuned by a laptop, like you’re going to do, despite the claims of Holley and man he was right. After he tuned my X-Flo it’s absolutely awesome compared to the self learning claims that Holley state.

Glad you had a good experience with him, that was not what I had but I got through it on my 70 Challenger RT.

 

[70ChargerRT]

Glad you had a good experience with him, that was not what I had but I got through it on my 70 Challenger RT.

What kind of experience and problems did you have? He didn’t even charge for me for my first tune because I had a RFi issue and I screwed up on a couple things in the wiring and he even helped me fix them. Remote tuning can be easy but if the installer doesn’t have something right it can be a nightmare.

 

[70chall440]

What kind of experience and problems did you have? He didn’t even charge for me for my first tune because I had a RFi issue and I screwed up on a couple things in the wiring and he even helped me fix them. Remote tuning can be easy but if the installer doesn’t have something right it can be a nightmare.

Its a long story but at the time I did not feel that I got what I paid for. He definitely knows what he is talking about but at times seems to think everyone else does as well. He did help in a number of ways and post event I felt I probably would have been better doing more research and ordering the stuff directly rather than through him.

I guess it was more of a case of our personalities didn't mesh or something but I was not overly happy (not rage fueled hatred, just don't care for him).

Again, glad it worked out for you.

 

[ScottyG]

Let’s try and keep it on track here. It’s always going to be a hit or miss when you are modding an old car and bringing it to be a little more modern. Ppl/vendors supply these custom parts and alot of ppl need alot of tech question and guidance. So vendors got their hands full asking questions and still making parts.
What I have done to my car it’s not like I can go ask questions or look up on google . This is all customs stuff and I gotta figure it out . It has been done but maybe ppl don’t post it . Like Come on we still got ppl asking what oil to run lol let’s just it on track here and am more than happy to share what I did or how I ran stuff to make anyone life easier to make there car better

 

[70ChargerRT]

Its a long story but at the time I did not feel that I got what I paid for. He definitely knows what he is talking about but at times seems to think everyone else does as well. He did help in a number of ways and post event I felt I probably would have been better doing more research and ordering the stuff directly rather than through him.

I guess it was more of a case of our personalities didn't mesh or something but I was not overly happy (not rage fueled hatred, just don't care for him).

Again, glad it worked out for you.

He certainly does have a dry personality and can come off as rude sometimes but but you have to remember he is old as dirt

 

[beanhead]

The best thing you can do Scotty is start learning to interpret your datalogs....contrary to popular internet opinion troubleshooting Holley's EFI systems is often easier than troubleshooting a carbed engine, but you have to know what the software is telling you. It isn't black magic but it take time to gain a good understanding, just like it does with carburetors..

 

[ScottyG]

The best thing you can do Scotty is start learning to interpret your datalogs....contrary to popular internet opinion troubleshooting Holley's EFI systems is often easier than troubleshooting a carbed engine, but you have to know what the software is telling you. It isn't black magic but it take time to gain a good understanding, just like it does with carburetors..

Ohhh I been around tuning . I use to mess with HP tuners and I know a thing or two about Holley . Just how crazy the engine feels as of right now just with the learning going on . Engine feels sooo strong and clean and smooth up to 5k rpm’s ! It’s so enjoyable to drive . The original 6bbl setup the carbs were shot and the vacuum diaphragms. The car was just blahhh. Yea can’t wait to start fine tuning her

 

[ScottyG]

Just a little update.

The car has been amazing! Did some tweaks to the tune, did some fuel correction and timing adjustments and the car is just running so good and there is still some left on the table . I want to get it to the dyno but I don’t think it will be worth it since the end of the season is near and over winter I will be correcting the engine bay and hopfully have the built engine ready by end of winter .
I did have a street race with a modded Subaru STI . 30mph hit and I was a car out on him and I hit 4th and was pulling on him. Left off around 120mph drum brakes were faded lol. The STI owner Was impressed, he didn’t think he would lose. And I was surprised as well! Old cars sound cool but most are slugs . From the *** dyno I feel I can click off a high 12 second pass in the car if not a deep 13 no problem. So far so great on this new setup and loving every second of it.

 

[ScottyG]

I did get some new front runners for the car and wow this is the look and the bias plys handle well on the street.

 

[ScottyG]

Update! Few months back I decided to go through the rearend, found pretty much it’s was all stock! The axle shaft studs have been welded multiple times and the clutch pak was smoked. So dr.diff came through like always! new 3in long screw in studs,35spline axles and lightweight spool. Added bonus was Amazon has the diff cover for only 194$ shipped! Crazy saving so I got it. The original parts are cool but also can be bad for safety reason since I do drive the crap outta the car so am glad I went thought it

 

[biomedtechguy]

That diff cover is GREAT looking and does more than look pretty and hold the gear oil in!!
I'm biased though..