negative camber negative caster

[chrger1967]

I just had my 67 RT manual steering to the alignment shop because it was toed out and wandering like crazy at high speeds. now it goes very straight and no wandering steering and the wheel is straight.the tire will squeal sometimes around a corner and the wheel does not come all the way back to center like it did before I went there too. would like to change the pass side camber and caster to get it closer to the pass side. read that you move the back in towards the engine for less negative caster and the front towards the fender. I have a degree tool coming.how should I proceed without making a mess of everything. or just leave it the way it is. driver side - 0.2* camber and -0.07* caster. pass side -1.1* camber and -1.3* caster.

View attachment 1742123

My 67 Charger with power steering. It does drive straight though. But I think they only knew how to adjust the toe and nothing else.

 

[pro451bee]

My 67 Charger with power steering. It does drive straight though. But I think they only knew how to adjust the toe and nothing else.

View attachment 1909699

I cannot read your print out at all

 

[chrger1967]

I cannot read your print out at all

I know it sucks. I could not upload it a a file only a picture from my phone. Is this any better on your end?

 

[chrger1967]

I just had my 67 RT manual steering to the alignment shop because it was toed out and wandering like crazy at high speeds. now it goes very straight and no wandering steering and the wheel is straight.the tire will squeal sometimes around a corner and the wheel does not come all the way back to center like it did before I went there too. would like to change the pass side camber and caster to get it closer to the pass side. read that you move the back in towards the engine for less negative caster and the front towards the fender. I have a degree tool coming.how should I proceed without making a mess of everything. or just leave it the way it is. driver side - 0.2* camber and -0.07* caster. pass side -1.1* camber and -1.3* caster.

View attachment 1742123

There is one question I have, do these alignment machines have any specs for older cars like ours and can you bring your own specs and ask them to follow them? I broug

ht my charger to firestone and don't think they made any adjustments for camber or caster. Looks like they only adjusted the toe.

 

[Kern Dog]

Yeah, like I wrote in your other thread...The idiots at some of these places just Set the toe and go.
You have to be clear with these guys, you have to tell them that you don't want the factory specs either. Those were based on the crappy bias ply tires of that era. These cars can handle extremely well with good radials and a proper alignment.
The printouts above are horrible for anything over 10 mph.
Here are some good bare minimum numbers to aim for.
0 to 1/2 degree NEGative camber
2 to 2 1/2 degrees POSitive caster, more is better but not easy to get.
1/8" toe IN.

The numbers above look like 1/2 degree POSitive camber on the left and 2.3 degrees positive camber on the right. I don't know how anyone would think that this is acceptable.
The caster...4 degrees negative on the left, 5.1 on the right?
I don't know if you could align the car any worse. Its as if the guy went exactly the opposite with the alignment cams than you are supposed to. I could do a mock up here at home just to see if my suspicions are correct.

Check this out:

Look at the UCA on the left, this is the drivers side.
For the maximum caster, the point A gets moved OUT and to the left. Point B gets moved IN and to the right. This moves point C rearward, adding caster.
If you do the exact opposite,

This will give you the terrible numbers like you see in that printout.
The alignment guys should know how to adjust caster and camber properly. That guy sucked at his job. I would not let him touch the car if you bring it back.

 

[chrger1967]

Yeah, like I wrote in your other thread...The idiots at some of these places just Set the toe and go.
You have to be clear with these guys, you have to tell them that you don't want the factory specs either. Those were based on the crappy bias ply tires of that era. These cars can handle extremely well with good radials and a proper alignment.
The printouts above are horrible for anything over 10 mph.
Here are some good bare minimum numbers to aim for.
0 to 1/2 degree NEGative camber
2 to 2 1/2 degrees POSitive caster, more is better but not easy to get.
1/8" toe IN.

The numbers above look like 1/2 degree POSitive camber on the left and 2.3 degrees positive camber on the right. I don't know how anyone would think that this is acceptable.
The caster...4 degrees negative on the left, 5.1 on the right?
I don't know if you could align the car any worse. Its as if the guy went exactly the opposite with the alignment cams than you are supposed to. I could do a mock up here at home just to see if my suspicions are correct.

Check this out:

View attachment 1910087

Look at the UCA on the left, this is the drivers side.
For the maximum caster, the point A gets moved OUT and to the left. Point B gets moved IN and to the right. This moves point C rearward, adding caster.
If you do the exact opposite,

View attachment 1910088

This will give you the terrible numbers like you see in that printout.
The alignment guys should know how to adjust caster and camber properly. That guy sucked at his job. I would not let him touch the car if you bring it back.

 

[chrger1967]

I put in new UCA arms and set them as shown in the first picture. At least I thought I did. I will have to double check. I have a couple of things to fix, then I can bring it back to them and stay this time and waxy what they do. Also I have them the specs, don’t know if they followed it.

 

[Scott Engelhardt]

Alignment is not that hard. The biggest part of alignment is starting with a good foundation. What is your goal with the vehicle? Are you willing to pay what it takes to achieve your goal. Are you willing to let the alignment tech drive your car to feel how the car responds to the adjustment, with these old cars one and done is not always going to happen. Taking your car to a chain tire store is probably not your best option. You need to find a shop that specializes in alignment and understands that out old vehicles do not always work well with factory specifications. I had my Plymouth on my alignment machine 3 times getting it to where I like it.
If I were to align a vintage car I would not touch it for less than $250 and that would be a start. Remember anything we do to these old cars costs us more than we think it should.
Kern Dog, the stance on your Charrger looks great and reading what you have done to it with parts and specifications, I bet it handles great.
I plan on making my Super Coupe handle as well as possible. My Satellite is a highway car and it drives perfect for what we use it for.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Yeah, like I wrote in your other thread...The idiots at some of these places just Set the toe and go.................

Here are some good bare minimum numbers to aim for.
0 to 1/2 degree NEGative camber
2 to 2 1/2 degrees POSitive caster, more is better but not easy to get.
1/8" toe IN.

This is only point I disagree with, having 0 deg camber IMO would be almost like not setting the alignment at all.
If you want our cars to turn, especially with ANY upgraded tire, you must have some negative camber.

 

[Cranky]

My 66 Belvedere did much better after 'I' did the alignment! And there are tools for the DIY'er and learning how isn't hard. You can even make your own turn plates too. Why did I do it myself? It happened after a supposedly good alignment tech worked on it. I did my own alignment for the first time and took it to him for a check on the rack. He said everything looked fine on the specs I took to him that I wanted except for the toe in was off so he adjusted it.....to a full 1" in!!!! When I left, the car felt like it wanted to turn over so I measured it when I got home. Glad it was only a few miles away because the car really drove like it was about to flip over.

 

[j-c-c-62]

What did the alignment guy use, a yardstick, and measure from the engine drain plug?

 

[Cranky]

What did the alignment guy use, a yardstick, and measure from the engine drain plug?

He was supposed to be good with Mopars too....and I did spread the word around on what he did. Don't know if that affected his business or not but it wasn't long after that 1 man shop closed the doors.

 

[j-c-c-62]

That's tough one. Everybody makes mistakes. I remember back in the day the mechanic usually did an after alignment road test? That is I guess no longer the case? IMO it is asking a bit much if we expect people to change/improve if we don't make the effort to point mistakes out. The way they handle the mistake is very telling, usually it's not well and they become defensive and combative. I say at that time it's all on them. That is the problem with cancel culture, it's a one and done proposition. While I am on my soap box, same applies to survival of the fittest, but that means only one is left standing.
BTW, I also would probably not have returned.

 

[chrger1967]

What did the alignment guy use, a yardstick, and measure from the engine drain plug?

The guys who did my car are young guys. I don't think they really cared. I spent the extra 80 bucks for the lifetime alignment, so they will be seeing me allot. I have to find a Firestone that could do it right or at least follow the specs I give them. Thats all I ask. Funny thing, when I dropped the car off to them, they could not figure out how to get the hood open and they thought the battery was dead because the car was in park but you know sometimes you have to slam in into park for the neutral safety switch to work, well they didn't know anything about a 58 year old car. And they went on to tell me that the floorboard on the driver side, at where your feet are, is rotted pretty bad, like guys, you really think I didn't notice.

 

[chrger1967]

He was supposed to be good with Mopars too....and I did spread the word around on what he did. Don't know if that affected his business or not but it wasn't long after that 1 man shop closed the doors.

Too bad there wasn't enough older Mopar's to keep him going.

 

[Cranky]

That's tough one. Everybody makes mistakes. I remember back in the day the mechanic usually did an after alignment road test? That is I guess no longer the case? IMO it is asking a bit much if we expect people to change/improve if we don't make the effort to point mistakes out. The way they handle the mistake is very telling, usually it's not well and they become defensive and combative. I say at that time it's all on them. That is the problem with cancel culture, it's a one and done proposition. While I am on my soap box, same applies to survival of the fittest, but that means only one is left standing.
BTW, I also would probably not have returned.

Yup, everyone makes mistakes but one that simple is kinda like, what the hay is up with that!? As a machinist I learned early on to double check my work because if any of the parts I made were off, it was hell to pay.

Too bad there wasn't enough older Mopar's to keep him going.

He worked on everything. I knew the shop was there before ever going there and never saw much traffic out front.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I suspect with the naked eye alone one could spot a 1" toe in, and means the alignment guy likely never even looked at the front tires after ckecking/resetting the toe. I can't explain the grievous mistake.

 

[Cranky]

I suspect with the naked eye alone one could spot a 1" toe in, and means the alignment likely never even looked at the front tires after ckecking/resetting the toe. I can't explain the grievous mistake.

Oh yeah you could see it. I was at the rack when he set it and I drove the car off of it when he was done. Charged me 25 bucks to check the settings and set the toe. This was back in the very early 90's when 25 bucks bought a lot of beer lol. Anyways, really didn't notice the car was driving bad until after I got off of the really smooth road out front of the shop and got on the main drag and got up to about 35. Thought about going back for about 2 seconds and just fixed it myself. Setting the toe isn't hard....actually, doing an alignment isn't hard either.