noisey 440 valve train

[Lenny Arsenault]

I can't seem to catch a break here new motor valve train is very noisey lots of ticking and tapping going on. Motor has new roller rockers on hydraulic lifters. Quiets down a bit after its warmed up but, rev it up a bit and you can hear the tapping gets worse. I went down to the machine shop and they said valve train is for sure noisey and they are going to remove the valve covers and check rocker and valve settings again. Im not so sure if its rocker or lifter trouble, should I go with a heavier weight oil? I am using bradpenn 15/30 or 15/40 I can't remember exactly which one. I have to say so far I am disappointed with this whole project so far but, I am not going to stop now just need to start going in a positive dirrection here.

 

[IQ52]

Hang in there, it'll get fixed.

Who's and what part number hydraulic lifters? Some Comp lifters require only .002-.004" preload. Couple that with the fact that aluminum heads, as they warm up, will loosen the lash some .006".

 

[Lenny Arsenault]

Im going to get the details on the roller rockers and lifters when I get to the shop again next weekend so I should have more information then.

 

[Tempest 455]

It's been my experience lash is upwards of .020" or more difference with aluminum heads. Depends on the head etc.

 

[66blvee]

I had the same problem with a 451 that I built. It sounded like a Model A Ford parade coming down the street. I went through everything that you have so far and more with NO results. I have heard of some Chrysler blocks with oversize lifter bores but never got to check mine before a buddy forced me to sell it to him. Might check that if you run out of ideas.

 

[Lenny Arsenault]

Wow! whats the fix for that do they make oversize lifters to fit into the larger lifter bores?

 

[wedge69]

You have to have the lifter bores sleeved . I had a block that was done some time ago and it was good to go.

 

[Lenny Arsenault]

OK next question! why didn't the machine shop catch this while they were building the motor should they have checked for this as standard procedure while checking clearences and bore sizes and that sort of stuff?

 

[Lenny Arsenault]

I am taking my car to the shop this friday so they can inspect the noisey valve train and I hope the cure is simple and cheap! I got a feeling its not the lifter bores thats my hope anyways. I don't really want to listen to that noise on a regular basis so hopefullt its just a matter of light machine work.

 

[Garys1969RR]

It may just be a simple lash adjustment. The lifters have to have a proper amount of pre load on hydraulics. Put the cam where the lobe is pointing away from the lifter. Then set the pre load. Its probably not set properly.

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There should be no up and down play in the rocker arm when the lifter is all the way down. Grab one and see if it is loose. They are probably all loose if it is making noise.

 

[Lenny Arsenault]

Well it appears that I have a set of faulty comp lifters according to the machine shop so they are going to buy new lifters from a different vender that they feel confident will work. The lifters in the motor that I have now are not pumping up according to the machine shop and thats whats making all the tapping and noise. The guys from the shop are going to call me when the new lifters arrive so we can schedule a time to install the new ones at my place in my garage. I will be sure to take notice of the cam lobes to make sure they are not damaged. I would think the engine would sound a lot smoother and feel stronger after this is done . Hope all is good after this cause I need to move onto my next issue 391 rear gears or possibly 410 gears the cam and stall converter doesn't like the 323 ratio it slips I believe to much. It fells kind of like Im pulling a trailer behind me so Im hoping the gear change will fix this and performance also.

 

[Lenny Arsenault]

Latest on the noisy valve train

:head_smack:OK! so it has been a while now since the machine shop got around to looking at my motor and they decided to pull the motor out of the car and tear it down for closer inspection. They found the valve springs on the heads the tention was a bit to strong the custom grind cam called for 115 lbs. seat pressue it had 130 lbs. the Harland Sharp roller rockers require the oil passage to the heads be reduced with oil restrictors 0.090" Now I am wondering do you think this will quiet the motor down and give it more oil pressure? also prior to the new changes the lifters were bleeding down very fast hence I believe thats one reason for oil restrictors. I've got no complaints on power it feels strong to me I just did not like what I was hearing.

 

[snakeoil24]

If the Lifters are bleeding down too fast putting a larger restriction in block to heads should make it nosier. Before you go further what is your oil Pressure at idle and what kind of pump do you have??

 

[Lenny Arsenault]

I think what they are saying is they are restricting the oil flow to the upper end by adding oil restrictors to reduce flow. I believe its a Mel M63 high volume with a 3/8" pick up tube, hemi 6 qt. oil pan. Oil pressure is 44 lbs. at idol and does not seem to go much higher as the rpms are raised. I am thinking maybe the rockers and push rods may have some sort of interference as the rocker is extended outward. I understand harland sharp rockers may need tappered push rods. I believe when I get the car back I am going to park it if its not fixed this time and I will work it out myself because next summer I will be retired and not working away from home so more time to deal with problems that come up. Besides I have this web site to clear the air on trouble shooting. thanks for the help.

 

[IQ52]

What cylinder heads are you runnning, what diameter pushrod and what rocker arm ratio?

 

[Lenny Arsenault]

Edelbrock RPM performers 84cc, 1.5 ratio rockers, push rods are CRA 64673-16 and Im guessing (CRA) means crane.

 

[nm9stheham]

Idle oil pressure is fine and actually pertty high. However, that is not the pressure in the leifter gallery. I personally would stop the shop at this point and take it on myself to consult directly with the rocker manufacturer on the restriction as adouble check on what these guys are doing; it is kinda small. Restricting the oil can make sense if the lifter gallery is being left with lower pressure than needed, but if this shop has not gotten it right so far, I would not trust them entirely. The explanation of the first lifters being not right makes me wonder why they picked those lifters in the first place....if they did....???

 

[WP29440SE]

they had to pull the engine to discover the valve springs are a bit tight ? sounds like monkey business to me. I hope you didn't pay them to do that.

the odds of getting 16 faulty lifters is next to nothing, you should buy a lottery ticket. if they are not pumping up , you are not getting *enough* oil pressure up top.

oversized lifter bores are stamped on the machined pad on the block if it does indeed have them.

 

[IQ52]

Edelbrock RPM performers 84cc, 1.5 ratio rockers, push rods are CRA 64673-16 and Im guessing (CRA) means crane.

That being the case you shouldn't have any pushrods hitting the port sidewalls. The pushrods hitting the sidewalls will make a sound just like loose lifters. Do check that though.

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Just been through this on the dyno. With Harland Sharp rockers I found it necessary to restrict the oil only when the #4 cam journal had a groove all the way around it. That groove required me to go to a .030" restrictor to control the oil.

When I had to go to a .030" restrictor I threw away the cam and got one that just had the clocking holes. No more excessive oil problem.

 

[Lenny Arsenault]

Well Im kind of taken back on this whole sitiation, No! this work is on there dime here they built it they fix it if not its possibly going to another machine shop that specificly works on mopar engines. I had the choice to do this at the start but I was convinced from a lot of people they could do the best build. I have seen a few mopar engines they built and was very Impressed with there performance. I did look at the block pad the only stampings were E 440. They are putting it back together this week and on the dyno with mufflers to better hear the internals. They are or were a premere engine builder in this area so there reputation is at stake here. The only thing I can do at this point is hope they get it right this time. My sitiation is my home and family are in another state other than where I work my car is also there in the shop this is very difficult to operate this way don't really have the time to do things myself at this time.