'nuther 470 build

[GrabberOrange69]

Thought I'd share a little progress from my 470 build.

It's going in my 65 Coronet wagon. I've been saving parts for the better part of a decade, and started moving getting the machine work done and getting it together a little over a year ago.

Block started as a virgin, never rebuilt, mid '70s 400, the one with the reinforced main saddles.

It's got an internally balanced 440 source crank I picked up at a swap meet, 3.915" stroke. It had been run before so my machine shop checked it out and polished it. We used King bearings, Icon forged pistons hung on Eagle rods, ARP bolts on the rods and mains:

We'll be running octane boost/race gas mix, or possibly Snow methanol injection with the 10.8CR.

The last few weeks have centered on prepping the heads and valve train, getting it on the engine. The rockers are a NOS set of Crane adjustables, new Elgin shafts, heads the ubiquitous Steaths.

The rockers had spent a long time on the shelf and had some flash rusting in the shaft bore that I took care of with some Scotch Brite. All assembled with Clevite bearing guard and Comp Cams spray lube

 

[GrabberOrange69]

Nothing comes out of the blister pack or box without a need of cleaning as a minimum, or tweaking in some manner. So when I dropped the heads on and mocked up the valve train, it was obvious the lifter/push rod/rocker set up wasn't going to be served by the 440 source 3/8" pushrods off the shelf. I'd need some custom push rods. Also, my chosen hydraulic lifters gave me some fits - they are 41 year old NOS Mopar units, that while I trusted the metalurgy, had sat on the shelf so long the cosmoline or whatever mineral preservative used had dried-up/congealed. They were frozen up - not rusted, but gummed up. You can see it on the bottom of the lifter. This stuff was inside too.

So into a pool of thinner we go - followed by a swim in a 30wt/ATF pool, fully submerged, for a week (no picture):

A few didnt fix that way and I had to take them apart and clean individually - I used a C clamp&1/4' drive socket to depress the plunger, disassemble, clean, then reassemble:

The cam I'm using is the oft maligned, .509 ground on the 114deg lobe center.

 

[super-bee_ski]

I'm following!
Thanks

 

[Jeff_383]

Very cool. The only question I have is, with the 509 cam and 10.8 comp why the need for mix with the stealth heads? Just curious.

 

[GrabberOrange69]

I think it’s on the edge CR wise, but with quench it may get away with it. I have a small block car with 11.2 and I mix octane boost for 20 years now, no problem.

But each engine is different.

 

[Lefty71]

It will be nice!

 

[Steve009]

Very cool. The only question I have is, with the 509 cam and 10.8 comp why the need for mix with the stealth heads? Just curious.

agreed. I have same CR with 240s on a 470 and run 91 or 94 pump gas no problem.

 

[Steve009]

Any work being done on the heads?

 

[GrabberOrange69]

Any work being done on the heads?

Nope. Just took them apart, cleaned and checked. Straight out of the box. It’s just a street car...if I really wanted to go fast, I’d been better off with a 2dr post! I just wanna scare the Hondas.

 

[GrabberOrange69]

agreed. I have same CR with 240s on a 470 and run 91 or 94 pump gas no problem.

I might get lucky, but mentally I’m ok mixing fuel. I’ve thought about e85 too.

 

[451Mopar]

Sounds nice. Don't know anything about the 114 lsa 509" cam?
I think will work with the Stealth head valve springs?

 

[GrabberOrange69]

Sounds nice. Don't know anything about the 114 lsa 509" cam?
I think will work with the Stealth head valve springs?

It should all work. I’m not winding the motor to the moon. There was enough room to coil bind at max lift visually, I didn’t even bother sticking feeler gauges in to measure it.

The wider lobe sep was targeted at the 727TF crowd as it has less overlap, and should idle better. I went with it for the same reason.

 

[Runner71]

Sweet!

 

[TN Mopar]

Very cool. The only question I have is, with the 509 cam and 10.8 comp why the need for mix with the stealth heads? Just curious.

I had the same question

I run the .509 cam in my 440
with 75cc Edlebrock heads for 10.7:1 compression
pistons .020 in the hole .027 Cometic gaskets (.047 Quench) installed on 108 center line

I use 93 octane pump gas
never had an issue with knocking
I have even run 38 degree total timing
you should be fine on premium gas

 

[GrabberOrange69]

I had the same question

I run the .509 cam in my 440
with 75cc Edlebrock heads for 10.7:1 compression
pistons .020 in the hole .027 Cometic gaskets (.047 Quench) installed on 108 center line

I use 93 octane pump gas
never had an issue with knocking
I have even run 38 degree total timing
you should be fine on premium gas

All good info to know! Maybe I’ll get away with it ;)

 

[GrabberOrange69]

Worked on the oil system while awaiting pushrods. Oil pump is a melling HV unit that says "USA" on it. Sat on the shelf for quite some time so cleaned it up and put some lube on the rotors, torqued it to spec. Also dicked around with the oil pick-up and re-pop Maxie pan. Had to tweek the oil pick-up, no biggie. Unseen is the source windage tray for strokers. All mocked up and ready to go.

 

[GrabberOrange69]

While waiting on the pushrod solution (thank you supply chain woes), I mocked up the headers and intake. Headers were fine both sides, no interference on the heads, block, etc.

Though I haven't made a final intake selection, the M-1 sits nice on top. Made me wonder if I'll have interference problems with my stock hood, 65 Coronet?

 

[TN Mopar]

My guess is yes

even if you are able to close your hood
you will have to use a low profile air cleaner with drop base
Those air filters are a proven restriction to flow

Count on putting an air scoop on your 65
I did it in steps and each stepped made my AFR leaner
not greatly but noticeable and on the good side

 

[451Mopar]

The M1 on a low deck is not all that tall.
Not sure about hood clearance on your car, but on my '71 Charger with power bulge hood, it fit even with a 1" spacer between the intake and carb with a 14x3" drop base air filter. Main reason I had the 1" spacer, it that it was drilled for manifold vacuum that I needed for power brakes after installing a Holley HP carb (no provision for PCV or brakes.) If the intake is off the car, I would drill and NPT tap it in case you need the additional vacuum source.

The current 400/500" engine has the Indy single plane intake on the Victor MW heads, and it also fit under the hood of the '71 Charger.

 

[LemonWedge]

The low-deck M1 and an Eddy RPM are the same ht. both will likely require a drop base air cleaner and limited room above the carb. At your RPM range, the RPM will be measurably better.
I recently made the switch From the RPM to the M1, and even in a drag race application, shifting at 6500, trapping at 6800, the RPM would appear to be just a hair better. If you have the opportunity to get one, Id go that route With the hydraulic .509 cam.