Overdrive or Regular?

[AmericanPowertrain]

Agree and disagree

1. For a true "no hack" install the nod CLEARLY goes to Passon

TRUE

2. If you drag race you'll like the Passon, the Kielser is not a fast shifting trans, a bit too sluggish and notchy, especially at higher RPMs

I disagree. Up to about 6200rpm the Tremec TKO (Keisler does not make any transmissions) can be speed shifted. You may have driven a few older TKOs that did not have micro-finished lugs, which made the 2-3 shift a chore. Also, if you are using a Keisler hydraulic system you may be getting clutch drag, which limits high rpm shifting. I would at least give the two a tie.

3. If you want the strongest trans, Passons will take more HP than a Kielser by a fair margin

Not true at all. Static torque testing at Tremec proved the TKO600 up to 1400ft-lbs of static torque. I have sold over 2600 TKO transmissions and have only two failures under load. That is a solid track record from personal experience.

4. For cost and ease of install, Passon wins

Can't argue with that!

5. For the best highway crusing O/D situation, Keisler wins due to it's better high gear ratio

Agreed

6. Fuel milage Kielser also wins, same reason

Again, I agree that the Tremec wins, but Classic, American Powertrain (taking a bow) and Keisler all base kits on Tremec TKOs.

7. Service - Passon hands down

Check out Classic or AP for much better customer service than Keisler. We even have a 24-hour tech line. Passon gives great service too.

8. With a 3:54 geared car that you do not want to modify beyond clean/simple easily reversable bolt ons and is mainly street driven and occasionally drag raced - Passon

Yep, OK

9. For a modified car that is mainly used for local car shows, street cruising, taken on a good many long highway runs and not much else -

We can mod the TKO to take 11,000 rpm shifts if that is what you are into. Keisler used to be the only player, but not anymore!

10. If considering these two companies you should also look into Gear Vendors and Classic 5 Speed before buying, may as well see what everyone is selling before you pull the trigger. I have also driven Gear vendor equipped cars, they should be a consideration for sure, they make a good product.

I feel so abused. Not even a mention of American Powertrain. Ya'll don't know what you're missing. :edgy:

Here is the link to the entire Moparts thread:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4787748&an=0&page=1#Post4787748[/QUOTE]

 

[rolling_Thunder]

By service do you mean service on the transmission or customer service ? If you mean transmission service then I have to disagree... The TKO is a widely used transmission with parts availability where as the Passon kit has only one source for parts... i hate only having one option but that's only me...

 

[AmericanPowertrain]

The Meaning of Service

By service do you mean service on the transmission or customer service ? If you mean transmission service then I have to disagree... The TKO is a widely used transmission with parts availability where as the Passon kit has only one source for parts... i hate only having one option but that's only me...

When I mentioned service in my post I was referring to reactivity to customer needs. We have a 24-hour tech line, available on nights, weekends and holidays when many DIY guys are under their cars. We stock almost everything you might need if you bugger up a part, or need a set of dowel pins to line up your bell housing. We also know what we are talking about, a real plus when you need tech help. Most issues can be solved in just a few minutes.

24-hour availability and the knowledge to help when needed is the best we can offer, so we do! :grin:

To give Passon their props, they are very reactive and will give you the straight scoop whenever they are available. As far as parts availability, you certainly would not expect Passon to have the same parts pipeline as a huge company like Tremec, so I suppose by your definition we Tremec guys get the nod, but not for lack of trying on the part of Passon.

 

[696pack]

Here is an interesting comment by Jamie Passon regarding the somewhat heated discussion on the thread over at Moparts.

Gene,
Thanks for the invite. I do appreciate it. However, the last time I did that it only got me into a HUGE "discussion" on this board that ended up getting the post locked and started a whole bunch of hard feelings. So, that being said, thank you, but I thought it better to not bother you guys. If I remember, wasn't there a guy there anyway? I didn't want to interrupt you.

Now to some math:

Here is my biggest problem with you guys saying that the ratios in our trans are so wide.

1st to 2nd gear change is 1.07 in our unit. It is 1.00 in yours. Maybe I am out in left field, but I really don't call that tremendously different.

2nd to third gear change is .59 in our unit. It is .61 in your unit. So, you are actually wider there. Again, I am not going to say that you are tremendously wide either. But in fairness, I never claimed that you were.

3rd to 4th is .20 in our unit and .28 in yours. AGAIN, WIDER!!!!!!

Yes, you have a 4th to 5th gear shift. However, when talking ratios, that is not relevant.

In my opinion, the ONLY thing that you guys have over us is a taller OD. Which is fine, however, it seems to me that strength might be compromised by doing this. That is why we didn't make a steeper OD. We were concerned about making the stongest unit we could. Regardless, I have not personally had ANYONE call me complaining that the OD was not enough.

Now, I know the story of the transmission fixture breaking at 1400 lb/ft of torque, but lets be serious, if this were the case, a tremec trans would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to break. I think that we both know that his isn't the case. I find it wierd that if they can take 1400 lb/ft of torque, then why are they rated at LESS THAN HALF of that number???? I know this, If my unit could take 1400 lb/ft of torque, I sure as heck would not rate it at less than half of its capabilites.

By the same token, I am not saying that one of our units is unbreakable. BUT, I am quite confident that it will take more than 600 lb of torque.


Lets look at another aspect here.

Howabout how steep your 1st gear is?

The final drive ratio in each gear is calculated by multiplying the transmission gear ratio by the rear end ratio. I picked a generic ratio that is a good rear ratio in a car that is a candidate for an overdrive. So, lets do some more math.

Your first gear: 2.89 X 4.10 = 11.84 final drive
Our first gear: 2.66 X 4.10 = 10.90 final drive

That is a .94 difference. The way that you guys talk about how crappy our ratios are, this is a MONUMENTAL difference in gear ratios. No wonder why no one mentions it. So, why isn't anyone pointing this out??????? It seems like a relevant point to me.

Let me also say, there is not personal attack here at all. It is simple math. I am just amazed at how you guys "gloss over" the tremec's shortcomings and point out that our unit has such a horribly wide gear spread. The fact is: IT DOESN'T.

Jamie

 

[KeislerJeff]

Tremec TKO

(Keisler does not make any transmissions)

You are right Gray, we do not make transmisisons, we make them better.

 

[Deleted member 214]

I have to argue a bit on the customer support comments about Keisler. I have had mine for over five years. I had no problems with the tranny AT ALL. Their tech people have always helped me quickly. I had issues this summer with the hydraulic clutch kit, but even though I waited two years between the purchase and actually installing it they have supported me. My clutch didn't disengage very well - they sent me the latest slave cylinder and hydraulic line at no charge. I had some firewall flexing - they sent me a brace at no charge.

 

[AmericanPowertrain]

Good Keisler Feedback

I have to argue a bit on the customer support comments about Keisler. I have had mine for over five years. I had no problems with the tranny AT ALL. Their tech people have always helped me quickly. I had issues this summer with the hydraulic clutch kit, but even though I waited two years between the purchase and actually installing it they have supported me. My clutch didn't disengage very well - they sent me the latest slave cylinder and hydraulic line at no charge. I had some firewall flexing - they sent me a brace at no charge.

Every company has it's successes, and I would certainly not say that the biggest seller of Mopar TKO kits did not have some great things going for it. That does not mean, however, that there are not companies out there doing a better job. I am happy to hear you had a great experience. As evidenced by posts on some of the bigger forums, and my four years working for them, there are many who have not.

 

[Deleted member 214]

I agree. The biggest or the first may not be the best. I welcome American Powertrain to the Mopar aftermarket. I subscribe to a Mopar-specific magazine and two all-brand hot rod-type magazines and haven't seen your ads, didn't know about you until I saw you on this forum. My bad!

 

[Patrick]

The only thing needed as stated is to bush the case. When the case holes get to big it cocks the input shaft putting it in a bind with the clutch. That's the only way your going to twist the shaft. I've bent and twisted 18 and 23 splines both. But set up right mopar inputs shafts don't bend or twist. The wives tales about the OD trans and the 81/4 rear end are just that. Wives tales ether one is an almost forever piece if set up right.

 

[69 Runner]

The 23 spline input shaft that got twisted in Greg's car by the P.O. was in a steel case. Was a case of lots of weight, lots of torque, and lots of traction colliding all at once

 

[AmericanPowertrain]

Thanks for the welcome!

I agree. The biggest or the first may not be the best. I welcome American Powertrain to the Mopar aftermarket. I subscribe to a Mopar-specific magazine and two all-brand hot rod-type magazines and haven't seen your ads, didn't know about you until I saw you on this forum. My bad!

Thanks for the welcome. We are relatively small compared to Keisler and we spend most of our marketing budget online and on our website. We also go to quite a few live shows.

Sorry for the off topic everyone. Back to the subject at hand. :grin:

 

[tallhair]

That was very interesting and very entertaining at moments. I have a couple aluminum OD trans cases (complete really but apart) and a complete non alum what appears to be an OD trans that's what lead me to find this via google searching this morning. Glad I did find it but it's a pretty old thread.