possible bad converter?

[Cranky]

Have a story with a couple of low compression engines....one a stock block 72 318 and a unknown year 440 with low compression forged pistons. BOTH loved 50 degrees timing and both were checked with 3 different timing lights. One light is an old Craftsman light that is known to be one of the better ones. Anyways, the 440 car (67 Coronet) had an aftermarket converter that seemed to stall fairly well in the 3200 range with an old DC 484 cam. Nothing big but did ok. The car seemed to run ok but was somewhat slow even with 3.91 gears. We bumped up the timing and it ran better and did that several more times until it ran pretty dang good which surprised us with a best run was at 50 degrees! It ran mid 12's.

Next was a 72 Demon with the original teen bottom end with 360 heads. Can ya say low compression? Don't remember what the numbers were but they were low. It had a stock converter and a 480 lift cam of unknown origin but was installed using the dot method so who knows why the engine was so lazy until 3k rpm. It idled loudly and sounded mean but was tame until 3k and then all hell broke loose until 6200 and that's when it said 'enough' lol. It was like someone turned off the ignition at that point. That teen ran 13.51 @102 in the 1/4 in that 2950 Demon.

Another friend built a 408 Duster that didn't do squat. It was loud with open headers at an idle and I asked if he degreed in the cam. He aligned the dots and my thought was the cam was retarded. After he changed damn near everything and it didn't do any good, he checked the cam. It turned out to be 7 degrees retarded. After that, it ran good. Not saying this is your problem but just some of mine lol

 

[icetech]

Could also be bushings or thrust plates.

you are the voice of cheer ok.. i pulled the trans today.. yanked the converter.. put in the new one.. PRAYING the front seal survived.. doing it on my back under the car was a bit of a battle...

they 900 quarts of fluid that would randomly surprise me by shooting out of a new spot all looked nice clean and new.. since it was...
BUT... the old converter hub has some marking... these are just barely enough to feel with a nail.. barely.. i put a scope in the front of the pump and the bushings look great.. the pump teeth to converter are still there and ok...

I don't think this could have been what hurt the old converter but if this one dies fast i will lose my mind

Also.. the old converter, just using a finger in it was really hard to turn.. and felt chunky.. new one is tight but turned nice and smooth...

This is after 3-4 hours of run time... maybe 5 tops..

 

[icetech]

Have a story with a couple of low compression engines....one a stock block 72 318 and a unknown year 440 with low compression forged pistons. BOTH loved 50 degrees timing and both were checked with 3 different timing lights. One light is an old Craftsman light that is known to be one of the better ones. Anyways, the 440 car (67 Coronet) had an aftermarket converter that seemed to stall fairly well in the 3200 range with an old DC 484 cam. Nothing big but did ok. The car seemed to run ok but was somewhat slow even with 3.91 gears. We bumped up the timing and it ran better and did that several more times until it ran pretty dang good which surprised us with a best run was at 50 degrees! It ran mid 12's.

Next was a 72 Demon with the original teen bottom end with 360 heads. Can ya say low compression? Don't remember what the numbers were but they were low. It had a stock converter and a 480 lift cam of unknown origin but was installed using the dot method so who knows why the engine was so lazy until 3k rpm. I idled loudly and sounded mean but was tame until 3k and then all hell broke loose until 6200 and that's when it said 'enough' lol. It was like someone turned off the ignition at that point. That teen ran 13.51 @102 in the 1/4 in that 2950 Demon.

Another friend built a 408 Duster that didn't do squat. It was loud with open headers at an idle and I asked if he degreed in the cam. He aligned the dots and my thought was the cam was retarded. After he changed damn near everything and it didn't do any good, he checked the cam. It turned out to be 7 degrees retarded. After that, it ran good. Not saying this is your problem but just some of mine lol

That 484 purple shaft if my favorite cam i ever owned... sounded great.. pulled great over like 2800 and good manners.. really loved that motor.. i put a .509 in it and it made me hate the car to the point i sold it...

 

[icetech]

Just wondering if it was something i did that could have hurt the old converter.. it made weird noise on the first startup... if i hadn't of seated it all the way it would have destroyed the pump.... i now have a new thing to stress bout on first startup

 

[Dave6T4]

It could be as simple as the pump drive hub was not welded on precisely concentric to the the one that fits in the end of the crankshaft. I once had a poorly manufactured aftermarket converter that took out my front drum bushing, pump bushing, and seal in very short time. I returned the converter to where I bought it, and they replaced it with a better one that worked properly. Before you put the inspection pan back on, see if your new converter runs true, with your engine running; no wobbles. I did not do that, and could have saved myself a lot of troubles.

 

[dvw]

Bronze pump bushing or Babbit? If it's bronze that doesn't surprise me.

You sure your expectations aren't too high for this thing? How heavy are you going down the road? A little 318 can only pull so hard even with lots of gear and high performance parts. If your converter is too tight the big cam will kill it massively as well. If you can, make an 1/8 mile pass and see what your ET is, and how much it varies. From personal experience, a big cam 9.5:1 340 4-speed with headers and a holley in a 3500 pound Dart with 4.10 gears should run 9.00s, after many hours of tuning. Your vehicle should put up similar numbers, probably a few tenths less since it's probably heavier with an automatic and a converter of unknown quality

We ran a70 Dart, stock 318 short block, stock 360 heads and intake, factory T quad, 484 purple shaft, headers, 2 1/2 to the bumper, 727 w/stock converter, 255/60 street tires, !4.0-14.05@99-101 for 100's of passes. My kids used to take turns running it. Didn't even turn it off in staging. Just swapped divers and made another pass. They made 38 passes one night at Milan.
Doug

 

[Geoff 2]

If you have 9" of idle vacuum, idle timing will need to be a LOT more than 24*...maybe as much as 40*.

 

[icetech]

Bronze pump bushing or Babbit? If it's bronze that doesn't surprise me.

We ran a70 Dart, stock 318 short block, stock 360 heads and intake, factory T quad, 484 purple shaft, headers, 2 1/2 to the bumper, 727 w/stock converter, 255/60 street tires, !4.0-14.05@99-101 for 100's of passes. My kids used to take turns running it. Didn't even turn it off in staging. Just swapped divers and made another pass. They made 38 passes one night at Milan.
Doug

it is bronze. thanks

 

[icetech]

K... trans back in, no leaks showing up so far.. car drives more like a car should hit the gas and it goes and all that.. so pretty happy with that.. still painfully slow but i will start tuning it and all the fun stuff now.. Shoulda went big block

 

[Dave6T4]

So, bad torque converter, then?

 

[icetech]

So, bad torque converter, then?

yeah, only other change i made was putting in the 2-3 restriction orifice..

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

K... trans back in, no leaks showing up so far.. car drives more like a car should hit the gas and it goes and all that.. so pretty happy with that.. still painfully slow but i will start tuning it and all the fun stuff now.. Shoulda went big block

the new one's from PTC, correct? Remind us what the stall speed is supposed to be for the new one.

 

[icetech]

the new one's from PTC, correct? Remind us what the stall speed is supposed to be for the new one.

New one is supposed to be 3200-3400.. but with my gear and low torque it's gonna be a bit less than that. I don't have a tach installed in the car yet to actually check

 

[Dave6T4]

Congratulations for sticking with it.

 

[icetech]

Congratulations for sticking with it.

Glad i got it all done yesterday.. almost quit half way to wait til another day.. One thing i love is how you drain the trans yet 4 more quarts magically end up everywhere afterwards Ended up taking 6qt of type F to refill.. thought it would be more. Also redid my trans lines which are now not 1/4" from the headers.. although they have compression fittings which i hate.. but couldn't do them in 1 piece.

 

[Cranky]

K... trans back in, no leaks showing up so far.. car drives more like a car should hit the gas and it goes and all that.. so pretty happy with that.. still painfully slow but i will start tuning it and all the fun stuff now.. Shoulda went big block

A small block can run good too and that teen running mid 13's surprised us and other guys didn't believe it was a teen. On guy gave me a little bit of crap about it not being one and I told him to lay 200 bucks on the fender and I would prove it to him. He walked off lol

 

[icetech]

A small block can run too and that teen running mid 13's surprised us and other guys didn't believe it was a teen. On guy gave me a little bit of crap about it not being one and I told him to lay 200 bucks on the fender and I would prove it to him. He walked off lol

I will get it there.. i have just never had this much money into a motor to have it run this slow... runs great, no issues other than lifter noise, just blah so far. will figure it out. Hughes has morel solid rollers for $488.. just not sure if i can get the stock lifters out and new ones in with the heads on.

 

[Cranky]

I will get it there.. i have just never had this much money into a motor to have it run this slow... runs great, no issues other than lifter noise, just blah so far. will figure it out. Hughes has morel solid rollers for $488.. just not sure if i can get the stock lifters out and new ones in with the heads on.

Been a very long time since working on one but can't see why the heads should have to be pulled to swap out the lifters....

 

[icetech]

Been a very long time since working on one but can't see why the heads should have to be pulled to swap out the lifters....

the oem rollers are pretty tall.. doing research some guys say with stock heads you can get them out other say no.. it's just one of those things. Bottom line is i need to get my 360 block to a machine shop.. this is the only time i wish i had kept buying trucks

 

[Cranky]

the oem rollers are pretty tall.. doing research some guys say with stock heads you can get them out other say no.. it's just one of those things. Bottom line is i need to get my 360 block to a machine shop.. this is the only time i wish i had kept buying trucks

You could always go with a old school 327 with forged pistons and crank....and I know where there is one for cheap