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RestoMod Electrical Upgrades - Conversions to Newer Technologies

Fabman

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With all of todays RestoMods and transformations of old cars with the new cars drivelines and electronics ( I'm talking complete interiors using the new cars entire wiring harnesses and power distribution blocks) ...what companies are out there that are addressing the needed modifications to all the Computer Modules that are in the new cars to work in the older cars ? I'm speaking of things like using the newer cars complete wiring harnesses and fuse boxes but not particular components like ABS, Air bag Systems and similar bits? I know there needs to be programs mods to the BCM & PCM. Maybe some harness mods as well. Who's out there doing this type of work? Don't respond with - IT CANT BE DONE...because someone's doing it.......
 
Not sure who is doing it but YOU can do it yourself, it just takes some time and a good wiring diagram, to eliminate all the non-essential bull ****. Just watch out for any permissive, like key fob proximity

This is what was removed from a 2005 SSR to make it work in a 1965 Chevy truck. If you are trying to integrate old and new tech you are going to have a problem with analog vs digital. For instance, an old school gear driven speedo trying to integrate into a modern dash. It can be a lot of work, so best of luck on your project. Just watch out for fuel pressure and oil pressure signals. That can shut you down and is difficult to locate/figure our why.

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Exactly why I go aftermarket (Holley Terminator in my case). I know you can do it yourself but its a lot of pain for no real good reason when you can buy a AM system and essentially plug it in.
 
Thank you for the input....but the more modern cars are allot more computer controlled with more (lets say20 plus) computer modules that all communicate on the CAN Bus - i.e. Contoller Area Network (if I got that right) . As you remove some of these modules you run into programming issues with the other Modules - BCM & PCM ....and even the RF Module- and all need programming changes - maybe even wiring harness changes...MOST of which cannot be done by the even experienced mechanic unless they are well versed in Programming
 
In all honesty why would you go through the headache. You can get an aftermarket 22 circuit harness and if you are putting a modern Hemi in an older car that requires a ECM computer why not just go with a stand alone harness for that HEMI and a new modern style wire harness for front to back of the car? The hours you would waste programing-removing and updating software would just plain be stupid to do. Unless you are trying to use heated seats, instrument cluster and other stuff out of a wrecked Hellcat. I see no need for the headache.

Here is a harness.. 22 Circuit with Ground Kit

Here is a Stand Alone Hemi Harness. You would come out weeks months ahead of the game.

 
With all of todays RestoMods and transformations of old cars with the new cars drivelines and electronics ( I'm talking complete interiors using the new cars entire wiring harnesses and power distribution blocks) ...what companies are out there that are addressing the needed modifications to all the Computer Modules that are in the new cars to work in the older cars ? I'm speaking of things like using the newer cars complete wiring harnesses and fuse boxes but not particular components like ABS, Air bag Systems and similar bits? I know there needs to be programs mods to the BCM & PCM. Maybe some harness mods as well. Who's out there doing this type of work? Don't respond with - IT CANT BE DONE...because someone's doing it.......
I used the Infinity Box system on my 65 Belvedere. Check it out.
Mike
 
You guys are obviously missing the point here. ALL YOUR KITS will not connect to pieces like this

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You guys are obviously missing the point here. ALL YOUR KITS will not connect to pieces like this

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I think you are missing the point. Why go through all the grief to connect to a special purpose brain box. You can have all your needs fulfilled with a whole lot less grief.
 
All the controls and terminations needed to connect the NEWER Cars instrument panel interfaces look like the picture I posted earlier. Tell me whos suggestions you are presenting can connect to this type of interface? because my picture SHOWS the types of computer controlled devices I need to connect to to make the NEWER car parts work

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All the controls and terminations needed to connect the NEWER Cars instrument panel interfaces look like the picture I posted earlier. Tell me whos suggestions you are presenting can connect to this type of interface? because my picture SHOWS the types of computer controlled devices I need to connect to to make the NEWER car parts work

View attachment 1625125

View attachment 1625126

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To use that module you will have to use all the components and wiring that came with the car. Good luck with that.
 
I'm not saying its impossible. They did the same swap in General Mayham But even they gave up and sent the car off for who knows how long. Here is a good article on the swap. They ended up using a company called diversified creations to complete the swap for them. Diversified Creations But now that car is Hellcatless and back to its old form. Chris Birdsong replaced all of the sheet metal that they hacked up to install the hellcat stuff.


Here is Chris Birdsongs Video page scroll the list to find the General Mayham and I think its a 5 or 6 part video of all the repairs he had to make after they installed the Hellcat stuff.

roadkill-general-mayhem-hellcat-swap-1968-dodge-charger-drag-0019.png
 
I'm not saying its impossible. They did the same swap in General Mayham But even they gave up and sent the car off for who knows how long. Here is a good article on the swap. They ended up using a company called diversified creations to complete the swap for them. Diversified Creations But now that car is Hellcatless and back to its old form. Chris Birdsong replaced all of the sheet metal that they hacked up to install the hellcat stuff.

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Here is Chris Birdsongs Video page scroll the list to find the General Mayham and I think its a 5 or 6 part video of all the repairs he had to make after they installed the Hellcat stuff.
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View attachment 1625152
That build was almost 10 years ago...2015 I think I saw....ALLOT has changed since then and I'm sure the newer RestoMod builds we see (Like on Mecum) out there have done what I am doing...so there's gotta be other People or companies dealing with what Im looking for.
 
YES, someone is doing it, usually the restoration shop. BUT, When it comes to replacing a BCM, you will need to program it. And unfortunately, it may cost a lot in the dealership. But can you do this on your own? For some vehicles, it's possible and it won't require a lot of equipment and expertise. While for some other cars, programming the BCM is only possible in the dealership. That is just the way it is with newer technologies. The car makers don't want to give up their proprietary systems/programs. It is for that reason that you normally replace the entire wiring system from the donor car. Use the donor's engine control module (ECM), powertrain control module (PCM), transmission control module (TCM), brake control module (BCM or EBCM), central control module (CCM), central timing module (CTM), general electronic module (GEM), body control module (BCM), and suspension control module (SCM). Then you bypass or remove the unwanted/no longer need extras (like heated seats, etc.). You will often have to bogie the sensors if they are not going to be used. The real problem is the input/output circuits. These circuits are used to either read data or send data to various components. The input circuits receive the sensors’ data and transform the signals into binary code so the processor can read it. Output circuits are used to send a signal back to adjust the position or operation of different actuators. If an input circuit used to process the O2 sensors signals were to stop working, the PCM might start injecting too much or not enough fuel to the engine. Since it can’t understand the data coming from the O2 sensors anymore, the PCM has no idea if the engine is running rich or lean and won’t keep the air/fuel ratio steady. If an output circuit is faulty, the PCM might stop sending a signal to open an injector. Or the PCM might not close the fuel pump circuit, and no fuel will reach the injectors at all.

All of this communication can cause a huge problem if not being sent and received correctly, thus replacing the entire wiring system is the way to go. Again, some sensors can be bogied, if your vehicle has o2 sensors after the cat(s) then yes a resistor can be soldered inline to make the computer think it's working and keep the check engine light from staying illuminated. Finding the wiring/sensor you need to eliminate is a bitch, but you can do it. I have done it, but to be honest, it was not worth the time/trouble. There is no plug and play adapter that I know of. Too many different makes and models and too little demand.

Best advice I can give. Use the entire donor wiring harness and install all those sensors (engine oil level, engine oil pressure, coolant temp sensor, Mass air flow sensor, intake air temp sensor, O2 sensors, knock sensors, crankshaft/camshaft position sensor, throttle position sensor, manifold absolute pressure sensor, fuel pressure sensor, coolant level sensor, Nox Sensor, exhaust temp sensor, and boost sensor (if applicable), and probably another dozen or so I have missed, into your restomod. It is not easy, which is why the cost to do it is so high.

Again, best of luck with your build!
 
Not a Mopar but I did a Ford conversion some years ago. 50 Ford F1 body that I grafted onto an 04 Explorer chassis. My boss wanted me to re-use as much of the oe electronics as possible. Quite the daunting project. I had to keep the 04 instrument cluster as that was the CANBUS communication hub. I used it, the PCM, fuel pump driver, both the main large relay/fuse unit from under the hood[ actual name escapes me right now] and the smaller one from the passenger compartment. I kept the ABS system too. JBA in San Diego, big Ford aftermarket place, was able to remove some of the programs from the PCM. Removed the VATS security system[ chip key], cruise control, ATC[ auto temp control], SRS[ airbags etc]. I had them leave the emissions stuff alone since I didn't want any drivability issues down the road. I kept the sensors etc needed for the 04 cluster but added new ones for the updated 50 cluster. There was a huge pile of wiring removed, like the Chevy one above. You for sure will need a factory service manual with wiring diagrams for whatever you choose for a donor. I would imagine that the newer vehicle you use for a donor is going to increase the complication of the electrical cross breeding you will encounter. My project took me almost three months to do just the electrical. Part of that was from spinning my wheels as my boss didn't want to get me the 04 manual. Just look it up on the net he said. Yeah, right. Massive waste of time. Since there is minute space in the 50 dash area, I used the old gas tank as my electrical locker. The PCM, cluster, fuel pump driver, fuel level interface[ classic instruments], speedo interface[ classic again as the 50 cluster was updated by them].
 
With all of todays RestoMods and transformations of old cars with the new cars drivelines and electronics ( I'm talking complete interiors using the new cars entire wiring harnesses and power distribution blocks) ...what companies are out there that are addressing the needed modifications to all the Computer Modules that are in the new cars to work in the older cars ? I'm speaking of things like using the newer cars complete wiring harnesses and fuse boxes but not particular components like ABS, Air bag Systems and similar bits? I know there needs to be programs mods to the BCM & PCM. Maybe some harness mods as well. Who's out there doing this type of work? Don't respond with - IT CANT BE DONE...because someone's doing it.......
I don't know, but I'll watch this thread.
Are you keeping the BCM for power locks, windows, security system?
 
Thanks Gents! FINALLY some guys KNOW exactly what Im doing. YES I have used the entire Drivetrain and all wiring harnesses and Power distribution blocks. The things I have omitted are ABS, ORC, Parktonics, Door modules. Everything else stays. Finally got the car to start - but it wont shut off. Hoping to find someone local here in Florida thats can take a look . Any suggestions?
 
I don't know, but I'll watch this thread.
Are you keeping the BCM for power locks, windows, security system?
You HAVE TO USE the PCM , BCM & RF Module and all 5 RF antennas. but Im not using the door modules... that means door locks are old school. But YES to the wireless ignition.
 
Did you check in with Hotwire? I believe they have the ability to work over the PCM and wiring as needed. If they don't, maybe they can point you in the right direction. The more tentacles the system has, the more complicated it will be. The 50/04 wasn't as bad as something way newer with more controllers, modules etc. That massive pile of non needed wire and connectors got put into the shops fix it stash. I did the custom work in a general auto shop. They had plenty of wiring repairs to perform with rodents chewing, wires melted etc. That color coded, certain gauge wire with tracers can't be found anywhere else.
 
I have checked out this some as my project is similar to yours. The PCM is programmable to lose the vats and modify the tune. When talking to companies like HP tuners, they do not address the bcm. That is where all the other modules send their data to and it holds those system programs. I have an appt. next week to see what programs (lane assist, adaptive cruise, electronic susp) can be programmed out. Just a heads up, with no door latch the radio and cluster will stay on after shutting it off. They will time out after a few minutes.
 
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