Results with NO thermostat

Heating, Cooling & AC

  1. miller

    miller Well-Known Member

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    Just gonna toss it out, for anyone interested.

    On my 64 Ply, with a 440, and a later 3 core 22" radiator. I'm the one, who ordered and installed one of the 180 SuperStats. With that thermostat installed, a short 5 mile each way drive, damn near burned my engine up! When I got back to the shop, motor was cooking. Temp gun read 220 degrees! The hell with that. Yeah, I tested the thermostat...opened as it should.

    Before, I had just the thermostat 'plate' in there, to restrict the flow. It worked 'okay'.

    Jerked that SuperStat out, and went with nothing but the gasket. Temps stay great, now. Even on hot days...though haven't had any days over 100. Temp stays in the white bar range, up towards the higher end, at traffic lights, and such. Rolling again, it cools back down. So, yeah, I'm liking it.
     
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    • Dennis H

      Dennis H FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      Has nothing to do with the stat. Never. No way will a 180 cause an overheat.
      Even in Jim Beam Texas.
       
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      • miller

        miller Well-Known Member

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        Funny.
        What I said, is exactly what resulted. No, I can't explain it.
         
      • Stanton

        Stanton Well-Known Member

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        Defies logic !!!
         
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        • miller

          miller Well-Known Member

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          I fully agree.
          A week before, I re-installed the fuel/temp gauge, that had been just re-built and calibrated. So, as far as I'm concerned, gauge is right. Temp gun read 220 at the block, with the stat installed, and gauge reading about the same. Positively not what I was expecting.
          I drilled two 1/8" bleed holes in the stat, and tested it, before installing it.

          So, flat don't understand why, it got so hot.
          Have over 1400 miles on the engine. Radiator with the two piece steel shroud, 7 blade 18" fixed fan.

          Also have tried, before, another Stent stat, but the engine still ran too hot. But, not that hot. What I'm getting now, I'll stay with. Just the other day, a good three hour drive, some in stop and go traffic, and it acted great.
           
        • Cranky

          Cranky Banned Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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          9 out of 10 times, my engines run too cold without a stat and the /6 in my Belvedere would hardly produce any heat in the winter time. In that thing, someone threw in some radiator stop leak and even after 5 flushes, you could still smell it. New stats would stick open but finally got one that worked well enough.
           
        • Don Frelier

          Don Frelier FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Assuming everything else is good, my guess would be lack of water flow:
          1. Either the pump is barely making any pressure
          OR
          2. Radiator has a flow restriction

          Taking out the pressure drop across the thermostat gives you more flow through the system, it just happens to allow you to run at a desired temperature.
          But the problem is not the thermostat it's 1 or 2 above.

          They do produce more heat during break in.
           
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          • khryslerkid

            khryslerkid FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            When refilling a cooling system, it is very important to allow the engine to warm up to operating temperature and watch for the thermostat to open before placing the radiator cap on. You watch for coolant flow taking place through the tank that shows that the thermostat has opened.

            I've seen it too many times when someone just refills the system, puts the cap back on and takes off down the road. Guarantee doing this will result in a overheated engine nine out of ten times.
             
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            • miller

              miller Well-Known Member

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              I don't dis-agree with all that's been said. Including beyond logic.

              Pump is/was new on the overhaul. Yes, getting good flow through the radiator.
              Went through two different radiator shops, getting the radiator cleaned out. So, there's no flow restriction.

              It is what it is. Temp looks like, once it's warmed up, stays 180-190 degrees.
               
            • GetX'd

              GetX'd Making Life Great Again!

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              I used to run without a thermostat back in the day. Never had a problem. Maybe ran a little cool. Started with a similar issue.
               
              Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
            • PurpleBeeper

              PurpleBeeper Well-Known Member

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              In my experience, I've run without a thermostat MANY times without an issue. I have had several motors get hot with a new thermostat & I've always assumed it was an air pocket behind the thermostat not allowing hot coolant to touch it (so it won't open). I always use the thermostats with the "air bleeds" in them or drill a couple holes myself.
               
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              • miller

                miller Well-Known Member

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                Probably right on, PurpleBeeper.
                That's the only thing that makes sense, an air pocket. Just hard to swallow, since I added bleed holes to the thermostat, and tested it. Also verified flow, after the engine warmed up.

                Yep, not my first time, running no thermostat.
                 
              • Dennis H

                Dennis H FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                It’s good for them to heat up to op temp quick. Less wear.
                 
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                • YY1

                  YY1 Well-Known Member

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                  What in Jim Beam Texas is a goin' on here?

                  I think that's gonna stick.

                  (Imagine a Slim Pickens delivery)
                   
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                  • miller

                    miller Well-Known Member

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                    Ugh! I wouldn't touch that crap, with a 10' pole.:screwy:

                    Now...if ya wanna talk black Jack (Daniels)...put me in.:D
                     
                  • YY1

                    YY1 Well-Known Member

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                    Yeah, I had way too many bad experiences as a child with either brand.

                    Today I can't even smell whiskey without my throat automatically closing.
                     
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                    • Ron H

                      Ron H FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                      T-stat's are an interesting discussion. When hunting down issues with my engine after rebuild, the problem was solved just that one of those things when I did several fixes can't decipher which one had more or less contribution to the solution. This includes some other more radical things I was pondering; but didn't do once the motor temp ran where it should. Some old mechanics I know said not to run a motor without a stat as this can cause coolant to flow so fast thru the rad that the rad can't do its job of cooling. Go figure, a buddy has been running his car without one for three years after his motor rebuild now and no issue. And once it's opened has nothing to do with engine temp maybe aside from too much restriction that some address by adding holes. I started from scratch as I have the old OEM 22" rad with 4-blade fan no shroud after building up the motor. Clearly an issue with the new cooling needs since it included a .60 bore-over, hotter cam, etc. Added a 7-blade, shroud, and it helped; but not that much. Then reduced the ratio of anti-freeze since I don't drive my '63 Plymouth in winter and it sits in a heated garage. Also added water-wetter and a top seal 'some' cars were equipped with. Got better results still seemed engine ran a bit hotter than it should though. Then came upon the science of motor oils. I was running 20-50 high zinc (solid lifters now). Oil experts say unless doing a lot of racing, high viscosity racing oil is not advised. High visc oil 'holds' heat and 'flow' is less - increasing heat. So went with 10-30 high-zinc and this seemed to further drop temp to the point where it should be anyway. What worked and didn't? No clue - desired result achieved!
                       
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                      • miller

                        miller Well-Known Member

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                        Right on, Ron.
                        What works for one, doesn't mean it will work for the other. Mainly, since no two engines are alike. And getting that desired result.
                        Fighting a clogged radiator, various T-stats, and the like, I've finally gotten the thing to run at reasonable temps. So, I'll truck on...

                        Interesting about the oil viscosity. I'm using Valvoline HP-1 40wt racing oil. Admit, I've used that same oil, most of my life, the viscosity mostly to fit my engine clearances. Build mine 'in the middle' of specs, or a little more. But, that's just me. And, for the needed zinc.

                        My temp runs just past straight up, on the gauge. Sure, a little more, at stops, but at least it cools back down, now. Warms up nicely, too.
                         
                      • Rick62

                        Rick62 Well-Known Member

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                        Here's something to consider; if running with a thermostat doesn't achieve the expected result, wouldn't that indicate that either the thermostat is defective or something else is wrong in the cooling system?
                         
                      • miller

                        miller Well-Known Member

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                        Your logic makes perfect sense.
                        But, one size does not fit all. Too many variations, considering what adds up, is the entire package. Understand what your saying. I've had some, that 'needed' a T-stat, to get to temp. I wound up very disappointed, with that so-called super T-stat. Just on that short drive, halfway in, engine got to temp. From then on, hotter and hotter, no cooling down at all.

                        The oil bit. I do not believe, our old iron wants multi-weight oil. It's fine for these newer engines. I grew up in the days, new cars came with 20wt oil, for break-in. After 500 miles, change to 30wt...period.

                        Years ago, bought a new Chevy Suburban, calling to use 5w30wt oil in it. In a truck motor!! Wife and I went to NM for vacation. Halfway through, coming into Santa Fe, damn low oil light came on. Checked it, and had to add more than 3 quarts!
                        Back home, took it to the Chevy house...did a consumption test...all good. ???
                        Shoved 10w40wt in it...never used another drop. What works, works.
                         
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