Seems to be the ongoing trend lately....

[cr8crshr]

This kind of a rant if you will. First off, this site has members that are extremely knowledgeable and have a wealth of information and experiences to share. What all to often I see though, is how individuals here will ask questions that pertain to their rides about how do I do this or how do I do that? And in most instances, they get back solid and appropriate info as to their particular question. What I am finding out though is that a vast majority don't even have the basic tools necessary to understand their rides available for reference. I am talking about the very first item that should be procured after the acquisition of the specific car. That is the FSM or Factory Service Manual. The FSM along with a good color schematic of the electrics should be the go to reference for them as it will help in their understanding how and what way these cars come apart and go back together. Yes there is a ton of info out there. But how can one even work on their car without some sort of reference and procedural explanation to guide them through their project. The FSM is full of info on Torque Specs, steps to remove and replace, tolerances and limits, fluid types and amounts, plus part numbers, although few compared to the Factory Parts Books, that will make any disassemble and assembly that much easier. And I might add, done properly.

I don't mind all the questions because the only dumb question is the one that is never asked. One does not fly an airplane without manuals nor do they just get in and drive that new car without at first reading the manual. That I know is a really suspect statement. Some do and some don't. And they ones that don't are the first to come crying and running when something goes wrong. So why then, don't those in this Hobby go out and purchase a Factory Service Manual specific to their cars? I don't know unless the thought process is that I don't need it because?????:icon_question::icon_question::icon_question:

End of small rant....cr8crshr/Tuck

 

[kellycom]

It's easier to ask for the answer then it is to look for it yourself. Most people don't actually want to learn anything or take the time to find out and learn it for themselves. They are that way @ work and it carries over to their personal lives.

 

[AMX364]

The manual only covers that car, sometimes even the engine info is different from year to year. Paper is great, but digital is here to stay. Sometimes the people asking the question just got the car(in last 5 years).

Paper FSM are harder to get then in the past, reprints can and do have errors. Heck even the FSM are wrong sometimes.

 

[Hemi Rebel]

It's easier to ask for the answer then it is to look for it yourself. Most people don't actually want to learn anything or take the time to find out and learn it for themselves. They are that way @ work and it carries over to their personal lives.

Well we cant reach through the computer and lay our hands on the cars. If you as re going to take the initiative to try and fix your car yourself, then help me help you. Its all but impossible to do an actual diagnosis when the car in question is 1000 miles away. Nobody is saying you need 30 thousand dollars in tools, but a manual will cost less than a tank of gas. Hell, half a tank!. Some basic electric diagnostics tool too. Volt meters can be gotten at sears for 40 to 60 bucks. And a test light. You guys who are not used to using these things can find help here.

 

[69a100]

I find that it is easier and faster to look up the info I need than it is to ask a question and then wait for a answer. And chances are that the answer won't even be related to the question or are given wrong info. I guess that I'm more of a find it yourself answer kinda guy then to ask a question.

 

[NJRR]

I absolutely agree that any classic car owner should have a FSM for that car. Even if they don't do the work themselves, having the FSM can help them from not getting ripped off by having a reference to check what a mechanic is telling them. Personally, I go to the FSM first. If I don't understand something or if I want opinions from others who have expertise, I ask on the board. Although the FSM might tell you how to assemble or disassemble certain components, there is no replacement for hands on experience and helpful hints might save you hours of frustration and some skinned knuckles.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

I printed out a FSM it was 1800 pages took 2 days at work to do and would be the equivalent to 3 giant 3 ring binders, the whole thing weighed a ton. I have it on the floor of my garage sitting there in case I decided to look at paper again. Probably took down a good sized pine tree printing it oh well.

It's much easier to electronically look at things, however the color wiring diagram is a must for in car work. I find myself holding an ipad in one hand googling pictures of stuff while trying to match it on my car at the same time.

Pictures say a 1000 words!

 

[PlumcrazyRR]

And can I please add on to the rant. If you are going to ask a question about your car, can you please tell us what type of car you have and year. Engine size would also be useful in most situations. The more details the better. I have started to notice a lot of questions asked recently with very little information to go off of. And I too am done now. Thank you.

 

[Photon440]

Excellent points. When I bought my first car in 1976, I ordered the shop manuals for it. Then I got my road runner, and ordered the factory manual for that too. In fact, I had a Chilton's repair manual for the road runner before I bought it, because I wanted the car so badly.

If I can ever get that boat out of the water, I have the workshop manual for that as well.....



(Also have a DC-3 manual...)

 

[Propwash]

Download away...........

FSM's:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=109

Wiring:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=24

Part's:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=107

Odds & Ends:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

 

[Rocketman]

The assumption is being made here that all the cars are bone stock and completely original. I just replaced the alternator and voltage regulator and NEITHER were exact matches to what was replaced. In both of those cases a service manual would have been worth dick. Many here especially in the higher populated areas think that parts are easy and readily available and they may be in those areas. I live in town of 20k where the only parts that are readliy available are air filters and oil filters.

All that being said, since I stay out 200 nights each year I appreciate the help I find here as my time at home is so limited so getting the help I need allows to play more than tinker which is what I need after being out all week.

 

[cr8crshr]

The manual only covers that car, sometimes even the engine info is different from year to year. Paper is great, but digital is here to stay. Sometimes the people asking the question just got the car(in last 5 years).

Paper FSM are harder to get then in the past, reprints can and do have errors. Heck even the FSM are wrong sometimes.

I disagree to that assumption that digital is here to stay. Simply put, without the digital availability, then what would you do? If one has the book as well. then they can still have the ability to do what they need to do. Albeit with errors and dissimilar information, it still comes first when dealing with our cars. Then the digital. There isn't much difference between a 1966 383 and a 1971 383 when it comes to specs. Basically one and the same. A digital reference is really just a copy of the original FSM anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

Download away...........

FSM's:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=109

Wiring:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=24

Part's:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=107

Odds & Ends:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

Propwash that is probably one of the best references out there right now along with the FSM. I use it as well as I wish others would too. Guess my point is the FSM is the basic ground floor reference tool and all the rest simply add onto it as things have progressed, upgraded, and changed. My AF training seems to be at work here as whenever a question would arise, the answer was, "What does the Book/Manual say"??? If one didn't know then it required a look up. After that you knew where it was in the Manual and most likely remember the answer as well. To this day I still practice that advise....69a100 too right Bro????

 

[Rocketman]

I disagree to that assumption that digital is here to stay. Simply put, without the digital availability, then what would you do? If one has the book as well. then they can still have the ability to do what they need to do. Albeit with errors and dissimilar information, it still comes first when dealing with our cars. Then the digital. There isn't much difference between a 1966 383 and a 1971 383 when it comes to specs. Basically one and the same. A digital reference is really just a copy of the original FSM anyway.

- - - Updated - - -



Propwash that is probably one of the best references out there right now along with the FSM. I use it as well as I wish others would too. Guess my point is the FSM is the basic ground floor reference tool and all the rest simply add onto it as things have progressed, upgraded, and changed. My AF training seems to be at work here as whenever a question would arise, the answer was, "What does the Book/Manual say"??? If one didn't know then it required a look up. After that you knew where it was in the Manual and most likely remember the answer as well. To this day I still practice that advise....69a100 too right Bro????

X2

 

[old_skool]

I think we also need to remember not every new member here has the experience as some, nor the whiskers....meaning a lot of young-uns just getting into the scene, I remember when I was a kid, my first cars suffered badly at my hands, wish I had a forum to ask....back up...wish there was internet, pagers weren't even in use yet and we had a rotary phone...point being, let them ask, it doesn't hurt to answer, and it hurts even less to say nothing if you so choose, now with that said, I'm not an enabler of laziness and think we should hold everyone's hand, look at all the opportunity you have to be a mentor...lol

And yes, the FSM should be everyone's second purchase..first?? A Mopar silly!!!!!

 

[HT413]

Dudes, it takes all kinds. And it all adds up to one awesome forum. Dude.

 

[cr8crshr]

Old Skool...It is Old Farts like us that remember doing it the old shade tree way when all we had was the basics. I am relatively young when it comes to the Hobby. Got started in my 50's even though I had the advantage of driving every single Muscle car and Sports Car I wanted to growing up in the mid 60's and early 70's. My friends Dad's all owed Dealerships. So I never really got into the wrenching and all till later on. But I had to start somewhere and the first thing after the MOPAR was the BOOK!!! The rest is History as they say...:glasses2:

- - - Updated - - -

Dudes, it takes all kinds. And it all adds up to one awesome forum. Dude.

DUDE???????

 

[MoparMitch]

Do I push on the brake petal , when I try to put the car in drive ?????

 

[HT413]

Old Skool...It is Old Farts like us that remember doing it the old shade tree way when all we had was the basics. I am relatively young when it comes to the Hobby. Got started in my 50's even though I had the advantage of driving every single Muscle car and Sports Car I want to growing in the mid 60's and early 70's. My friends Dad's all owed Dealerships. So I never really got into the wrenching and all till later on. But I had to start somewhere and the first thing after the MOPAR was the BOOK!!! The rest is History as they say...:glasses2:

- - - Updated - - -



DUDE???????

Dude, man. Dude.

 

[696969]

I wanna see what's up with that Titanic manual.

 

[aldal]

I ordered a 65 Service manual before I had even bought my car (lucky I found my 65 Coronet to go with it) but then one evening in a beer fueled haze I ordered another Service Manual (different cover same exact manual) which I thought I absolutely needed (now I have 2) so I guess my point is I don't really know WTF my point is or what I'm doing but I really enjoy this site.