Steering box to K-frame stripped nuts

[kiwigtx]

I'll have to get the K-frame out of the car to do that, which with my luck will have to happen. The other thing is that a 1/2" helicoil needs a 17/64" drill bit. I don't have one, but am sure can buy 1 somewhere. Then I am looking at the size of the coil. Once the nuts are drilled out for that, there sure wouldn't be much metal left on the original nuts. Not even sure how strong that would be.

The downside to most Helicoils is that the drill bits are odd sizes.....on purpose I believe. Happily, the set of coils should come with the correct drill bit.

At least that has been my experience on the subject. I bought six different sizes for various jobs over the years.

 

[Nxcoupe]

Helicoils work fine. They are every bit as strong as the original threads, which failed. If you know of someone that has had a properly installed helicoil fail, I'd like to hear about it. If it were my car, I'd tap it out and helicol it and never think about it again. Most of the time you can get the helicoil tap started without drilling, but the proper way is to use the specified drill size, then tap and install.
Whichever way you go, good luck to you. I hate see stupid crap like this happen to good people.

 

[4406bbl]

When I had originally put the car together, the treads were fine. I had an original box that was rebuilt several years earlier and run in another car. After driving that for a bit, I decided to remove it and send it to Steer and Gear. for a refresh. Then this spring, PST came out with their new 20:1 boxes. Bought one of them and installed it a couple weeks ago. I really like it, but the steering wheel wasn't perfectly straight. I drove it probably 40 miles or so. Had an appointment for an alignment this morning to get the wheel straight and check everything else. Drove it into town and remember thinking that the steering does feel kind of sloppy and I'm glad the alignment is getting done. My 64 year old alignment guy drives it on the rack and immediately asks what I did to it while moving the wheel back and forth. We pop the hood and had a look. Here the shaft on the new PST box was moving 1/2 turn before the tires would move. While turning, the shaft was also coming out of the box at least a 1/4". So he sends me home of course, and I'm lucky I made it. 2.5 miles and hardly and steering, getting worse every time I turned it. Didn't go over 20 mph the whole way. So I have changed the box at least 3 times, but the big mistake I made was slobering up the bolts with anti seize and trying to get the 100 ft. lbs. of torque stated in the FSM. When I put in the PST box, I knew I had a problem and didn't sleep well for 2 nights because of it, wondering how I was going to fix it.
Called PST this morning and they shipped out another box. First one they have had a problem with, and the tech guy says I am the 1 in a million that this would happen to. Welcome to my world I tell him. I didn't mention my stripped bolt holes to him.....
Maybe this was just the Big Guy up in the sky looking out for me and forcing me to fix the bad holes, idk.
What makes this even worse is the fact that I finally got the car running decent and was looking forward to racking up some miles.
Also never posted about this, but I finished up the rotisserie restoration on my Road Runner this spring. Put probably 50 miles on that car with a major oil leak coming from the back of the motor. I had it freshened up this winter and was there when it was dyno'd. No oil leaks at that time. I pumped 2 pounds of air in the dipstick tube while soaping the back and sure as **** it is blowing out around the crank. The builder says to pull the motor and bring it back and he will take care of it. He has had it 2 weeks now and it has been back on the dyno twice.
So I have 3 old Mopars. All nicely restored cars. My 2 B bodies are out of commission. One with a motor pulled and the other about to be in the same condition I am afraid. My Duster is still hanging in there so far. I tell you, sometimes I seriously contemplate selling all 3 and buying a new Challenger.....
Hows that for a story?

I tell you what.... you will never be sorry if you buy a redeye challenger, we were wringing a new one out last night. I wish I had bought it before my last restoration started, anyway not selling the old stuff but damn a redeye is pretty nice.

 

[hunt2elk]

I agree with the above I would support the engine and drop the K and fix it properly. Helicoils are ok I’m personally not a fan but it still wouldn’t be easy to install them with the K in the car. Sounds like the threads were wore out already and just couldn’t take the 100 ft lbs the anti seize wasn’t the cause of them stripping out I’ve always used ARP lube on the steering gear bolts and torqued to 100 and haven’t had an issue yet I might on the next one who knows.

Yeah, it would be impossible to get a helicoil in the outside hole with the frame in the car. The 2 inners would go with the header removed though I believe. You are probably correct about the threads being compromised before I even got the car. The reason I was blaming it on antiseize is that from the reading I have recently done. Sounds like if any oil or lube is on a thread, you should back the torque down by 20%? I not sure this is right, but does make sense to me.

 

[hunt2elk]

I’ve always used ARP lube on the steering gear bolts and torqued to 100 and haven’t had an issue yet I might on the next one who knows.

You do know that you should never have typed those words, don't you?

 

[hunt2elk]

I tell you what.... you will never be sorry if you buy a redeye challenger, we were wringing a new one out last night. I wish I had bought it before my last restoration started, anyway not selling the old stuff but damn a redeye is pretty nice.

Funny, I told my wife last night that maybe I should just sell all this old junk and buy a new Challenger. She rolled her eyes and said "now that would be stupid". She likes the old iron like I do.

 

[hunt2elk]

Stripped out a front bumper frame hole by using a bolt with fine threads. It threaded fine until it started getting some torque on it. Oops.

Although that sucks as well, I would much prefer repairing that to these sector mounts.....

 

[Beekeeper]

You do know that you should never have typed those words, don't you?

Yes probably strip the very next ones I do

 

[Nxcoupe]

Yeah, it would be impossible to get a helicoil in the outside hole with the frame in the car. The 2 inners would go with the header removed though I believe. You are probably correct about the threads being compromised before I even got the car. The reason I was blaming it on antiseize is that from the reading I have recently done. Sounds like if any oil or lube is on a thread, you should back the torque down by 20%? I not sure this is right, but does make sense to me.

Absolutely. Read any ARP torque specs and directions. They show a considerable reduction in torque when using their lube over oil.

 

[hunt2elk]

Turns out I did buy a 17/32" bit sometime in the past. This is my concern though. The nuts are 3/4" square. Here is a pic of the helicoil inside a 3/4" wrench. As you can see, there will not be much meat left in the nut. So what is the consensus, do you guys think helicoils are the way to go, or should I be welding new nuts in?

 

[Nxcoupe]

It'll be fine. Remember, you're cutting interlocking threads into the nuts. Use some red loctite on the inserts if you want, then put the bolts in and tighten.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

What the hell, It'll be fine... It's just the steering, not like it's a critical part or anything..

 

[Nxcoupe]

What the hell, It'll be fine... It's just the steering, not like it's a critical part or anything..

I am not minimizing it. I've just worked with this kind of stuff a lot and to me it's a no brainer. He has three bolts that were evidently already damaged and was driving it. That little bit of metal difference is not a life or death thing.
I do appreciate quality sarcasm and that was very well played. Lol.

 

[hunt2elk]

This is interesting and what probably screwed me the most. Posting this so maybe it will prevent someone else having the same problem. 1969 Plymouth FSM. In the suspension section it lists the torque for these 3 bolts at 80 pounds. But, in the steering section, and what I had always looked at, clearly shows 100 pounds.

 

[4406bbl]

Funny, I told my wife last night that maybe I should just sell all this old junk and buy a new Challenger. She rolled her eyes and said "now that would be stupid". She likes the old iron like I do.

Maybe....but if you ever do you will not be sorry.

This is interesting and what probably screwed me the most. Posting this so maybe it will prevent someone else having the same problem. 1969 Plymouth FSM. In the suspension section it lists the torque for these 3 bolts at 80 pounds. But, in the steering section, and what I had always looked at, clearly shows 100 pounds.

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Ya I thought 100 was a little high. Standard bolt torque for a 1/2"grade 8 bolt dry is also 80. I bet the 100 is where the factory set their impacts to overcome friction from welding the nut.

 

[Cranky]

This is interesting and what probably screwed me the most. Posting this so maybe it will prevent someone else having the same problem. 1969 Plymouth FSM. In the suspension section it lists the torque for these 3 bolts at 80 pounds. But, in the steering section, and what I had always looked at, clearly shows 100 pounds.

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With a 1/2 bolt (cap screw actually) it can go 100 lbs but will that welded nut take it? I would probably go 80 or even 75 and use Loc-tite. Also, a nut will 'give up' some of it's strength after being used a couple of times and even more in severe service environment and those things can be considered being in severe service being low to the ground and seeing all kinds of crud, salt on the roads and no telling what else. They don't use salt on the roads here but did plenty of driving on the beach in Galveston back in the late 60's and well, what's worse than driving on a coastal beach?

 

[hunt2elk]

I can guarantee you that I have learned my lesson with over torquing bolts with a lubricant on the threads. Hope this post helps others from making the same mistake.
K-frame is out. I took 2 grade 8 nuts and welded them together. My plan is to do one at a time with the box bolted in place. Grind off the stripped nut and weld these in place. I would think it will be stronger than original and more what Ma Mopar should have done from the get go. I'll have to open up the frame to access the outer one and then repair that.
Good idea, bad idea? What do you guys think?

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Looks like a good repair to me...

 

[Fran Blacker]

MAYBE helicoil outer one? You got two solid ones, don't think it's worth digging. MO your call.

 

[4406bbl]

Great fix, I would do them all.