Strange crack when attempting start, then losing all power (Video)

[DAMatt]

So I am trying to start the car, crank 1 no start, pump the gas a few times, crank 2 no start, pump again, then attempt no.3, when turning the key to start, I hear a pop, then all power is lost (even clock stops), though the ignition is turned on. Turn ignition off, you can see the clock moving again. Leave the car for a while, then power is restored when ignition is on. Try to start, same pop, then all power lost. What gives?

I made a short video of the issue, what do you guys think it is? It did this before, but without the pop - I had to replace the starter relay. Would hope this is not the case again, takes 2 weeks to order the part from the US, at triple the final cost when it finally arrives.

Here's the clip:

 

[vance.dykes]

YOU HAVE A BAD CONNICTION EATHER AT THE BATTRY OR A BAD GROUND CLEAN THE BATTERY TERMAINAILS AND CHECK THE NUT AT THE STARTER REALY. IF THAT DON'T DO IT KEEP LOOKING FOLLOW THE FACTRY SERVICE MANUAL.

 

[RJRENTON]

So I am trying to start the car, crank 1 no start, pump the gas a few times, crank 2 no start, pump again, then attempt no.3, when turning the key to start, I hear a pop, then all power is lost (even clock stops), though the ignition is turned on. Turn ignition off, you can see the clock moving again. Leave the car for a while, then power is restored when ignition is on. Try to start, same pop, then all power lost. What gives?

I made a short video of the issue, what do you guys think it is? It did this before, but without the pop - I had to replace the starter relay. Would hope this is not the case again, takes 2 weeks to order the part from the US, at triple the final cost when it finally arrives.

Here's the clip:

IMO....It's possible that the starter motor's solenoid (located on the starter motor and engages the pinion gear during cranking) is defective OR the starter motor has a short of the armature (the rotating part). The solenoid does the heavy current switching of the battery power to the actual starter motor armature and field coils. These internal contacts MAY be corroded or burned. The STARTER RELAY switches power to the starter solenoid. Since the starter is trying to engage, it is likely that the starter RELAY is ok. The problem is likely the starter itself or the starter solenoid or the battery cable to the starter motor's solenoid. When you try to start the engine, the nirmal current draw is in the range of 300-400 amps. IF the starter motor has a bad armature or field coils, the amp draw can exceed the normal range causing an overall system voltage drop causing the clock to stop (if it's a quartz conversation) for as long as the ignition switch is in the start mode. Just my opinion of course......
BOB RENTON

 

[R413]

Clean your battery terminal connections. Yes it could be that simple. Or the bulkhead and connections at the starter relay.

Lastly don’t overlook a bad battery cable end,where it is put together, they can look fine but won’t be able to supply 250 amps to the starter.

Battery Terminal Cleaner

 

[RemCharger]

Google Image Result for https://live.staticflickr.com/3645/3607306590_030492fbba_b.jpg

 

[RemCharger]

Sometimes your Charger needs a charger.

 

[kiwigtx]

Large contact inside starter might have got stuck, and is arcing - if it is an OEM style starter...

or, there is a hard short to ground in your wiring.

What work on the electrical system have you performed since the car last ran?

 

[steve340]

My GTX had a faulty earth cable at the connection of the cable to the battery terminal.

 

[vance.dykes]

My GTX had a faulty earth cable at the connection of the cable to the

we call it ground in the u.s.a

 

[DAMatt]

Thanks for all the replies.

To eliminate possible causes I plan to usr some beefy power wires, both from the negative (battery) to the block, and from the positive (battery) to the starter relay.

If nothing is changed, I think I have to find the wire that goes from the starter switch relay to the starter motor. I have to admit I have never gone there. How do I best do that?

There has been no work on the electrics when it died.

I put Crackedback's headlight kit on without uncoupling the NEG battery cable, fried the starter relay, lucky I had one spare. It gave the same symptoms as above, but without the pop. After replacing the relay it has worked OK till today.

If it is the starter, can you recommend one? And do you know how to find the wire that goes to the starter motor? Or what it's called at least?

Thanks

 

[R413]

Large contact inside starter might have got stuck, and is arcing - if it is an OEM style starter...

or, there is a hard short to ground in your wiring.

What work on the electrical system have you performed since the car last ran?

If there was a short to ground there would be serious problems show up quickly.

Sounds more like an open circuit.

the factory used 4 gauge battery cables and they are more than adequate. “Beefy” is not necessary.

 

[kiwigtx]

we call it ground in the u.s.a

...and we call ground the stuff that you get buried in. Dirt. Just saying.

 

[kiwigtx]

My GTX had a faulty earth cable at the connection of the cable to the battery terminal.

I have seen a bad compression crimp on the main positive terminal at the battery - they can make a lot of heat and some noise......but what do I know?

 

[vance.dykes]

...and we call ground the stuff that you get buried in. Dirt. Just saying.

but i do like the dizzy name

 

[vance.dykes]

Thanks for all the replies.

To eliminate possible causes I plan to usr some beefy power wires, both from the negative (battery) to the block, and from the positive (battery) to the starter relay.

If nothing is changed, I think I have to find the wire that goes from the starter switch relay to the starter motor. I have to admit I have never gone there. How do I best do that?

There has been no work on the electrics when it died.

I put Crackedback's headlight kit on without uncoupling the NEG battery cable, fried the starter relay, lucky I had one spare. It gave the same symptoms as above, but without the pop. After replacing the relay it has worked OK till today.

If it is the starter, can you recommend one? And do you know how to find the wire that goes to the starter motor? Or what it's called at least?

Thanks

you will need an ohms meter remove the ground / earth test as the factory manual shows' there trouble shooting in the manual for this .

touch the positive battery cable on one end with the red test lead then touch the starter positive post with the black lead is 0 resistance showing ?

this is how you can find an open.

 

[Doorkicker]

Thanks for all the replies.

To eliminate possible causes I plan to usr some beefy power wires, both from the negative (battery) to the block, and from the positive (battery) to the starter relay.

If nothing is changed, I think I have to find the wire that goes from the starter switch relay to the starter motor. I have to admit I have never gone there. How do I best do that?

There has been no work on the electrics when it died.

I put Crackedback's headlight kit on without uncoupling the NEG battery cable, fried the starter relay, lucky I had one spare. It gave the same symptoms as above, but without the pop. After replacing the relay it has worked OK till today.

If it is the starter, can you recommend one? And do you know how to find the wire that goes to the starter motor? Or what it's called at least?

Thanks

You're getting a lot of great feedback. When I watch the video and watch the clock the entire time, it looks like the clock stays stopped until the moment you turn the key back to the off position. Is that correct? There could be a situation where the starter relay and the start's solenoid lock up because there is a huge draw, which is probably building up in the relay and starter, not to mention the cables. When you turn the key off it de-energizes the relay, the massive draw stops, and the clock restarts. That loud pop is (maybe) the sound of the solenoid and relay together, but most likely the solenoid and starter locking up.

If I was there I would first make sure the motor turns over using a wrench, etc. on the crank pully... just to be certain the motor isn't seized up. After that, I would closely check the following... connections at batt terminals, batt ground to frame, batt ground to engine, and engine ground to frame (firewall). I had something similar happen with a car and the ground strap from the engine to the firewall was getting cherry red and then a pop sound... which was the relay and solenoid...everything fixed when the strap was replaced. If all connections are ok, I'd pull the ground cable off the batt and put a meter between the cable and the batt to test draw with the system off, then reconnect and test the draw during start. You might just have a dead batt - even if new. It's worth doing a proper batt test.

If all normal, I would replace the relay ($20 bucks?) because it takes 10 seconds and cheap. I would pull the starter and bench test it. If it's not happy, get a new one... the mini from 440 Source is $99 (Premium Light Weight High Torque Mini Starter). Be sure to inspect the starter before bench testing it. Look for cracks... and make sure it turns. It might have come apart the last time you started the engine and is super bound up. If you put a cracked/damaged starter on the bench to test, it could get ugly really quick...

If you're going to keep testing like this... I would disconnect the Alt and, if you have an external regulator, disconnect that too... you might have already toasted them. I would disconnect the ignition too... whatever you're running... you need to protect it. I would also check the fusable link... there are situations where that is overloaded but doesn't stop the current - super rare.

Anyway, if you do all that and it's still popping... then we move forward from that point.

 

[threewood]

...and we call ground the stuff that you get buried in. Dirt. Just saying.

I'm going to start calling it Earth wire. I like it!

 

[moparwacko]

...and we call ground the stuff that you get buried in. Dirt. Just saying.

Isn't earth dirt?
Or is dirt earth?
So exactly which is ground?

 

[QuickBpBp]

...and we call ground the stuff that you get buried in. Dirt. Just saying.

We call it soil here cause we plant and grow stuff in soil… that is the farmer in me. Dirt is something your clean from you floor Mats…

 

[70 sublime]

In your video if you watch the amp gauge when you turn the key on it moves a little to the neg because the ignition is on but when you move it to crank the engine it comes right back up to center I would think if there was something bad happening the guage would move a lot lower when trying to crank Can you take a screwdriver and trip the relay on the firewall to make the starter crank ? I would try that first then you would know if it did not crank it is nothing under the dash giving you problems