JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
That was the reason I decided to fix it with metal. There are lots of differing opinions on this but since I am not planning on doing this again for a long time (if ever!) I went bit the bullet.
Suggestions on Bodywork
- Thread starter JimKueneman
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That was the reason I decided to fix it with metal. There are lots of differing opinions on this but since I am not planning on doing this again for a long time (if ever!) I went bit the bullet.
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
There are 4 pieces of fabricated metal in this area around the wheel well. The most complex is I had to rebuild the lower front corner with the compound curve. For my first time _ever_ doing something like this it came out better than expected. I don't think it will take much filler at all as I also worked out the high and low spots with the stud welder and body hammer.
I was getting ready to quit trying to weld that lower patch almost upside down. I finally realized I was not feeding the wire fast enough to "stuff" enough material into the weld instead of just arching and blowing holes in it…. Getting your welder tuned just right is key to not wanting to throw the damn thing out in the driveway and run over it.
I was getting ready to quit trying to weld that lower patch almost upside down. I finally realized I was not feeding the wire fast enough to "stuff" enough material into the weld instead of just arching and blowing holes in it…. Getting your welder tuned just right is key to not wanting to throw the damn thing out in the driveway and run over it.
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JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
All I had left to do was do a simple patch on the right rear quarter corner. It always ends up being more work than you think. I cut out the rusted metal and gave up for today…
Many times there are tiny pin holes a guy just cant see if you are not able to get some light behind a panel. A skim coat of a fine / short strand fiber glass impregnated filler from evercoat ect is a good way to seal them so they are water tight.
That skim coat should then be sanded away leaving only the pin hole or holes filled.
We would much rather do that then take a chance on missing a pin hole and having a bubble ect pop up in a few months or years. I will admit to getting a pin hole or two when welding and with bifocals LOL the chance of missing one is pretty good.
As far as old filler goes I will never paint over old filler / braze / ect no matter how long it has held up.
If we are putting our name on a paint job I am going to know what I am painting over.
Every bodyman has different ways of doing things this is just me.
Only thing else I would add is once your done welding its good insurance to coat the back side of the panel/ repair area with a seam sealer or at least some under coating to also seal it from the back side also.
Nice job so far and glad you picked up a stud gun , it will come in pretty handy as you go along.
That skim coat should then be sanded away leaving only the pin hole or holes filled.
We would much rather do that then take a chance on missing a pin hole and having a bubble ect pop up in a few months or years. I will admit to getting a pin hole or two when welding and with bifocals LOL the chance of missing one is pretty good.
As far as old filler goes I will never paint over old filler / braze / ect no matter how long it has held up.
If we are putting our name on a paint job I am going to know what I am painting over.
Every bodyman has different ways of doing things this is just me.
Only thing else I would add is once your done welding its good insurance to coat the back side of the panel/ repair area with a seam sealer or at least some under coating to also seal it from the back side also.
Nice job so far and glad you picked up a stud gun , it will come in pretty handy as you go along.
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
Tonight I planned on going out in the dark and put the flashlight in the quarter panel to see the pin holes. It was sort of like a constellation last night
Yes the old eyes add another dimension to this project. Not sure if you are thinking there is still filler/primer on it. I did grind out all the braze and it was stripped clean. I have just been spraying on a few shots of primer to do a block sand to know where to pull or pound. I will strip it again before priming.Yes I can easily access the back side of the panels where I welded and was contemplating how to seal any holes I missed. I will pick up some filler tomorrow.
What is your opinion on filler over or under the epoxy primer? The SPI primer I bought recommends it over. Is the fiberglass filler what you would use to straighten the body or is it just to skim and fill the pinholes?
Jim
Jim, {filler over top the epoxy} We never used the short chop strand glass filler to fill dings or dents, just to skim over the welded areas then DA off , Its just insurance.
Also go around all your welded areas with a wire wheel on a drill to get any and all carbon off before prime.
3M makes a nice brush applied seam sealer if you can get to the back side and clean it up good before brushing it on after your done welding. for any back side areas you cant reach just some plain old spray on under coat is good insurance also.
I consider myself a decent welder but still get pin holes. I would never pass the pipeline test LOL. Did your stud gun come with a shrinking tip ?
Also go around all your welded areas with a wire wheel on a drill to get any and all carbon off before prime.
3M makes a nice brush applied seam sealer if you can get to the back side and clean it up good before brushing it on after your done welding. for any back side areas you cant reach just some plain old spray on under coat is good insurance also.
I consider myself a decent welder but still get pin holes. I would never pass the pipeline test LOL. Did your stud gun come with a shrinking tip ?
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the 1000 questions but I _don't_ want to do this twice I bought the SPI primer because it is suppose to be sandable and high quality. What if you end up sanding through to bare metal while working the filler?
I bought the SPI primer because it is suppose to be sandable and high quality. What if you end up sanding through to bare metal while working the filler?
Sanding through is normal and no big deal, you just don't want to lay a big spread of filler on bare metal , a edge here or there isn't a deal breaker. Back when everyone used to just lay it right on the steel over at least 80 grit surface.
filling the pin holes.......... you can just go right on them before prime, you will remove 99% of it anyway.
filling the pin holes.......... you can just go right on them before prime, you will remove 99% of it anyway.
We use a ppg/deltron product called DP epoxy primer , I have heard good about the SPI also it should be fine.
There are many good bodymen that post on here and you will get good advice from most all of them. Some are old some are young that's were a lot of the different advice comes from, We / they just post what they know or use for products and methods.
There are many good bodymen that post on here and you will get good advice from most all of them. Some are old some are young that's were a lot of the different advice comes from, We / they just post what they know or use for products and methods.
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
Ok, I am assuming you reshoot the area with epoxy primer where you sand through to metal before laying down the filler primer to get the benefits of the epoxy?
And what about filler, recommendations?
And what about filler, recommendations?
After all the metal work is done we shoot a coat of the epoxy on before any filler / primer goes on,
scuff the epoxy primer 1st so you have a good surface prep. remember all dings will have a crown / raised edge around them that has to come down flush / level.
On really ruff cars we will use a polyester primer filler that is activated the 1st time around then switch to a PPG 3055 activated primer
we use Ever Coat filler called Rage body filler. low shrinkage nice to work with. the more time that goes by, the fillers & primers no matter what brand will shrink some.
so letting your body work set for a spell few days ect sure helps the end results.
The thicker the filler application the more it will shrink try to stay under 1/8" max each application most all of it will end up on the floor.
Ruff it in with the DA then get on it with a long board & 80 grit. Finish off the filled areas with 180grit or 220 then reprime and block again with a guide coat.
You will have spots on the body that are over worked on a old car that has been dollied and hammered before you got it, just cant get away from it. Main thing is to keep from getting any areas that will oil can on you { pop in and out with ease } you get areas like that you will have to shrink the area.
scuff the epoxy primer 1st so you have a good surface prep. remember all dings will have a crown / raised edge around them that has to come down flush / level.
On really ruff cars we will use a polyester primer filler that is activated the 1st time around then switch to a PPG 3055 activated primer
we use Ever Coat filler called Rage body filler. low shrinkage nice to work with. the more time that goes by, the fillers & primers no matter what brand will shrink some.
so letting your body work set for a spell few days ect sure helps the end results.
The thicker the filler application the more it will shrink try to stay under 1/8" max each application most all of it will end up on the floor.
Ruff it in with the DA then get on it with a long board & 80 grit. Finish off the filled areas with 180grit or 220 then reprime and block again with a guide coat.
You will have spots on the body that are over worked on a old car that has been dollied and hammered before you got it, just cant get away from it. Main thing is to keep from getting any areas that will oil can on you { pop in and out with ease } you get areas like that you will have to shrink the area.
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
Opinions on an air powered long board? These days my time is the most valuable thing if it save me time in getting the job done I am all for it.
Also do you skim the entire panel or just where it needs it?
Oh and I did see a few points of light shining through my welds last night. Way less than I anticipated but still enough to take your advice. And no the gun did not come with a shrinking tip
Also do you skim the entire panel or just where it needs it?
Oh and I did see a few points of light shining through my welds last night. Way less than I anticipated but still enough to take your advice. And no the gun did not come with a shrinking tip
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Jim, A air powered long board is good for much of the work, you will want to finish with a manual one though once you switch to 180 / 220.
{The air one saves my old back and shoulders } It takes a ton of air though.
Allways run it away from the car for a few after oiling most of them exhaust out the back and will blow oil right into your filler.
If you have to shrink any panel areas use a braze tip on a torch, turned down low. start in the center of the high area and heat it, then make a circle motion with the flame spreading / working the circle outwards until your just past the high area. then pull the heat away and slap a wet rag on it. {Will not work on welded highs just oil can or over worked areas} you can also raise small hail sized dings this way heating the back side and drawing it out with the rag.
If you end up needing to shrink some areas practice on a old piece of scrap the same gauge till you get a feel for how hot and length of heating time ect.
skim a area larger than you need , many people try to just fill the low and end up re filling many times. don't do the entire panel but make sure to run your filler on past each area a few inchs that way you can feather edge it out. Concave areas are the hard ones and you need a round block that fits the concave, drag those areas out a bit more with the filler.
{The air one saves my old back and shoulders } It takes a ton of air though.
Allways run it away from the car for a few after oiling most of them exhaust out the back and will blow oil right into your filler.
If you have to shrink any panel areas use a braze tip on a torch, turned down low. start in the center of the high area and heat it, then make a circle motion with the flame spreading / working the circle outwards until your just past the high area. then pull the heat away and slap a wet rag on it. {Will not work on welded highs just oil can or over worked areas} you can also raise small hail sized dings this way heating the back side and drawing it out with the rag.
If you end up needing to shrink some areas practice on a old piece of scrap the same gauge till you get a feel for how hot and length of heating time ect.
skim a area larger than you need , many people try to just fill the low and end up re filling many times. don't do the entire panel but make sure to run your filler on past each area a few inchs that way you can feather edge it out. Concave areas are the hard ones and you need a round block that fits the concave, drag those areas out a bit more with the filler.
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
Making great progress. I have never owned a DA sander before... wow that thing can move material.
What is the right way to handle this. There are a few places bottom tips of the wheel wells (where they roll over to the horizontal body lines) that has enough rust in the seam to make the corner weak. It is not really enough to make a patch for.
Jim
What is the right way to handle this. There are a few places bottom tips of the wheel wells (where they roll over to the horizontal body lines) that has enough rust in the seam to make the corner weak. It is not really enough to make a patch for.
Jim
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
Here is a photo of what I am talking about. I hit it with a grinder with a very aggressive knot wire brush to dig out what was weak.
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
Here is a photo of what I am talking about. I hit it with a grinder with a very aggressive knot wire brush to dig out what was weak.
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
Here is what the underside looks like. The undercoating has turned to a weird powdery stuff. I have used one application of airplane stripper from the axle back so the dark splotches you see are the undercoating that is really still stuck.
The more I see of your car Jim the more solid it looks. Nice project.
Those spots you posted pics of if you look between them that dark area is going to come through in time.
All that needs to be cut out, just go along the body lines with a cut off wheel and make a L shape cut out, There will prob be a lot of crap / dirt hid behind it right at the bottom were things get tight. see what the back side of you cut out looks like, if your out of the rust your good to make a patch. Im not talking minor surface rust but scale and rot.
One way to get that hard undercoat off is with a putty knife and small hand held torch or heat gun, stinks like he// and is a nasty job but the end results are worth the trouble.
Those spots you posted pics of if you look between them that dark area is going to come through in time.
All that needs to be cut out, just go along the body lines with a cut off wheel and make a L shape cut out, There will prob be a lot of crap / dirt hid behind it right at the bottom were things get tight. see what the back side of you cut out looks like, if your out of the rust your good to make a patch. Im not talking minor surface rust but scale and rot.
One way to get that hard undercoat off is with a putty knife and small hand held torch or heat gun, stinks like he// and is a nasty job but the end results are worth the trouble.
JimKueneman
Well-Known Member
It is in nice shape (other than the 30+ year old fender bender). I am doing great other than the welding. I got the waterproof filler on the patches I have completed and sanded down. Will look at them tonight with a flashlight to see if I missed anything. It is a hack job getting it all welded. It is a weld, grind, weld, grind, weld...... effort that takes 10x what it should. I really need to upgrade my welding system if I try to attack the trunk (see below)
The thing that is really trashed is the trunk. Is it worth saving?
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/69-coronet-trunk-rust.109868/
Jim
Looked at the lid, It needs to be replaced.
as time goes by on your work you will get better at the welding and finishing them off.
as time goes by on your work you will get better at the welding and finishing them off.
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