Today i had a very bad day (Broke parts worth 2k)

Michael_

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I'm very depressed and angry at the same time.

I start at the beginning:
When i bought my charger the cooling fan already made contact with the radiator -> noise.
We thought its the fan clutch and i ordered this new one: 1966-1972 B Body fan clutch for model with A/C. Reproduction
AND an nos part. I also bought a new fan (Reproduction 1968-1973 B-Body 18 1/2 7 blade engine cooli...) because the original one was bent out of shape a little.
We then installed the yearone clutch and the new fan which seemed to solve the problem for the moment.
I also ordered a new fan shroud (which was missing) and we installed that aswell.
I also ordered a brand new glen ray radiator but did not install at that time.

Shortly after the water pump went bad and coolant was leaking out at the weephole which also threw off all belts except the water pump belt.
I went ahead and ordered a new gates water pump, gates thermostat, fel-pro gasket & gates v-belts.

A couple days ago we installed the new gates water pump and after that noticed the fan wabbling around a bit such as making contact
with the radiator again when you revved it up.
I though the new yearone fan clutch probably broke already. (Since you hear so many stories of new parts being trash right out the box)

Today we installed the new v-belts, NOS fan clutch (so replaced that again) such as the new glen ray radiator (which i regret A LOT).
What can i say, after we filled the system with rain water and let it run at idle for maybe 10 minutes the fan ran into the radiator core and
water spilled all over the engine bay. New 1,5k radiator (with shipping/tax etc.) destroyed after being in the car for like 30 minutes.
Fan clutch and fan also broke. Made my day.

I wish i would have reinstalled the old radiator to make sure the problem was solved before installing the new one.
Now its to late -.- Have not seen that coming. (That it completely destroyes the radiator core)

So i am the one lucky guy that buys 2 faulty fan clutches or can something else cause this aswell?
The car has this problem since i got it.


PS: At what temperature does the original fan clutch engage? I suspect when it did for the first time, the fan ended up in my radiator core.
 

Lefty71

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Not exactly sure of the timing of the replacement of each of these parts, but it's sounds like maybe you damaged good parts with bad. No wobbling of the fan is acceptable..... it sadly sounds to me like that's what damaged everything else, sans your new high dollar radiator. :(:(:(:(
 

Michael_

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Not exactly sure of the timing of the replacement of each of these parts, but it's sounds like maybe you damaged good parts with bad. No wobbling of the fan is acceptable..... it sadly sounds to me like that's what damaged everything else, sans your new high dollar radiator. :(:(:(:(

Timeline:

1.
Problem: Bought car and noticed fan making (light) contact with radiator
Fix: Replacing fan clutch and fan with following (which seemed to fix it for the moment)
Also bought & installed fan shroud that was missing.


2.
Problem: Water pump went bad, lost all coolant through weep hole and threw all belts except water pump belt
Fix: Replaced water pump (new gates one), themostat (new gates one), thermostat gasket (new fel-pro one)
After doing that i noticed the fan wabbling a bit and making (light) contact with the radiator again when revving it up.

3.
Problem: Needed to install new v-belts, fan clutch (again) & radiator
Fix: Installed new v-belts (gates), new glen ray radiator and replaced the fan clutch again with an nos mopar part.
Result: Destroyed radiator core, bent cooling fan and probably another broken fan clutch.

-----

At this point i really don't know whats wrong.
It looks like fan clutch but 3 bad fan clutches? (The one the car came with + the 2 replacements i've bought)
I also replaced the cooling fan and there was i would guess 0.8" or more space between the radiator core and fan.

Anything that can cause the fan to wabble and make contact with the radiator core except the clutch?
Could i have done something wrong installing the new clutch/fan?
 

WileERobby

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How are your engine mounts ? Did you ever check them before installing any of the new parts... especially that radiator ?
 

Michael_

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How are your engine mounts ? Did you ever check them before installing any of the new parts... especially that radiator ?

No.

I have not thought about that because the engine isn't shaking at idle and it's also not moving when you rev it up.
But of course i should look at them. Maybe its to subtle to notice but enough to cause this problem...

Maybe i should get myself one of these and see if it stops the wabbling?

If so would mean fan clutch.
If not would mean i got a problem elsewhere.
 

66 Sat

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I agree with WileRobby - I was thinking engine mounts too, and whether you've checked clearances etc on all these parts? It would have to be a hell of wobble to hit the radiator, and I can't believe 2 fan clutches are trash out of the box as well as the original.
Maybe it's the water pump (but I doubt it) - that's what the fan clutch bolts to.

Instead of throwing parts at it start looking at it analytically.

Maybe you can get the radiator re-cored in Germany? There must be radiator shops there that can do it. I had mine re-cored here in Australia. Shipping, taxes etc are going to make this hobby unpleasant otherwise.
 

davek

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wow that sucks and Im sorry about your radiator. Is the fan to close to the radiator? with the shroud I would think the fan would be at least an inch from the radiator. What year car?
 

hugh68charger

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I had a similar situation.... my problem was the bolts were too long and were bottoming out and they seemed tight but were not holding the fan tight. It has been awhile and I can't remember which bolts but my fan came apart and went into my radiator and broke the shroud. Thankfully it was an old radiator and I was able to get the Glen Ray. It is cooling much better, I upgraded the water pump and got my new fan and clutch from Tonys....Also FYI you can get B-body fan shrouds from your local dealership. I was shocked and they were priced pretty low. Well you could a couple of years ago.... who knows now?
 

diesel_lv

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After doing that i noticed the fan wabbling a bit and making (light) contact with the radiator again when revving it up.
Here is your problem. The Most likely culprit is a slightly bent water pump shaft which you did not replace at this point. The fan clutch is very unlikely to have been bad twice.
 

Michael_

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Maybe it's the water pump (but I doubt it) - that's what the fan clutch bolts to.

I also thought about that but also doubt it.
Fact is it looked like the first new fan clutch solved the problem. But after replacing the water pump it came back. (At least it appeared to be like that)

Maybe you can get the radiator re-cored in Germany? There must be radiator shops there that can do it. I had mine re-cored here in Australia. Shipping, taxes etc are going to make this hobby unpleasant otherwise.

I already planned on looking into that.

wow that sucks and Im sorry about your radiator. Is the fan to close to the radiator? with the shroud I would think the fan would be at least an inch from the radiator. What year car?

I would have guesstimated 0.8" at least so probably 1".
It's all factory parts so the space between fan and radiator core should be excatly as it's supposed to be.

I had a similar situation.... my problem was the bolts were too long and were bottoming out and they seemed tight but were not holding the fan tight.

No the bolts do not hit anything but air and should be tight. The fan isn't loose, it looks like the only play is in the clutch.

-----

I think i will order one of these fan spacers/fan clutch delete kits together with a new fan (because mine is totally bent up)
and see if it fixes it or not.

I will check the engine mounts aswell but i just talked to my dad (he helped me blow through 2k in just one afternoon :D) told him about the suggestion with the engine mounts but he also thinks the mounts are fine.

Edit:


Here is your problem. The Most likely culprit is a slightly bent water pump shaft which you did not replace at this point. The fan clutch is very unlikely to have been bad twice.

What do you mean by "water pump shaft"
This is how the new pump looks like / what i replaced:
42032_1.jpg


There isn't really anything except that and the pulley. I did not replace the pulley.
 

diesel_lv

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I also thought about that but also doubt it.
Fact is it looked like the first new fan clutch solved the problem. But after replacing the water pump it came back. (At least it appeared to be like that)



I already planned on looking into that.



I would have guesstimated 0.8" at least so probably 1".
It's all factory parts so the space between fan and radiator core should be excatly as it's supposed to be.



No the bolts do not hit anything but air and should be tight. The fan isn't loose, it looks like the only play is in the clutch.

-----

I think i will order one of these fan spacers/fan clutch delete kits together with a new fan (because mine is totally bent up)
[/URL]
and see if it fixes it or not.

I will check the engine mounts aswell but i just talked to my dad (he helped me blow through 2k in just one afternoon :D) told him about the suggestion with the engine mounts but he also thinks the mounts are fine.

Edit:




What do you mean by "water pump shaft"
This is how the new pump looks like / what i replaced:
View attachment 1298461

There isn't really anything except that and the pulley. I did not replace the pulley.
When the belts jumped off the 1st time, it wasn't because coolant got on them. Driven through rivers in old multi belt trucks, flooded roads, car washes etc... never a belt jump off. A pulley possibility bent or the mounting surface not level. That flange on the water pump shaft is possibility not square on the shaft or the shaft is not straight.
 

Michael_

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When the belts jumped off the 1st time, it wasn't because coolant got on them. Driven through rivers in old multi belt trucks, flooded roads, car washes etc... never a belt jump off. A pulley possibility bent or the mounting surface not level. That flange on the water pump shaft is possibility not square on the shaft or the shaft is not straight.

But if the flange or pulley isn't straight why would it wabble?
For it to wabble (that much) i would think it has to be (too much) play in one of the components. (Engine mounts, water pump, fan clutch)
Otherwise the fan position would be wrong but no wabble, or not?
 

davek

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does your WP pulley seat all the way on the WP? Is WP pulley bent?
 

Michael_

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does your WP pulley seat all the way on the WP? Is WP pulley bent?

Yes it seats good and it does not look to be bent.
See some pictures but the clutch & fan covers the radiator core damage relatively well.

Well checking engine mounts, fan clutch delete such as getting a new fan will be my first steps.
I would be pissed if it turns out to be the new gates water pump.

image0.jpeg


image1.jpeg
 

RemCharger

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Are those studs holding the fan to the clutch? Never seen that before.
Also, there is 2 different Hayden clutches. A short and long. Looks like you have a long.
And I assume they are Hayden clutches
 

Michael_

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Are those studs holding the fan to the clutch? Never seen that before.
Also, there is 2 different Hayden clutches. A short and long. Looks like you have a long.
And I assume they are Hayden clutches

No this is an NOS mopar clutch and a factory reproduction fan.
 

66 Sat

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Buying that spacer and fitting it WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM.
It is not an anti-wobble spacer.

Re-reading your story, you say the fan was hitting the radiator when you first bought the car. Maybe whatever that issue was has never been resolved. You say the water pump started leaking "shortly" after you changed the original fan clutch. How much is "shortly" - a few hundred miles? Then the belts fell off. Maybe the issue you had wrecked the original water pump, and caused the belts to jump and is now causing issues with the new one?

Take the water pump off and spin it by hand, or with a drill - you might be able to see any wobble and will definitely feel any play.
 

davek

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post a pic of radiator to core support,pic shooting down to see gap,that might be a problem being to big of a gap between them. That would bring the radiator closer to the WP.
 

Michael_

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Buying that spacer and fitting it WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM.
It is not an anti-wobble spacer.

The only reason would be to see if it stops wobbling or not.
If the fan clutch isn't the problem it won't stop. I know that.

You say the water pump started leaking "shortly" after you changed the original fan clutch. How much is "shortly" - a few hundred miles?

Not even a few hundred miles.

Then the belts fell off.

Same time as the water pump started leaking.

Re-reading your story, you say the fan was hitting the radiator when you first bought the car. Maybe whatever that issue was has never been resolved. Maybe the issue you had wrecked the original water pump, and caused the belts to jump and is now causing issues with the new one?

Well question is what this issue could be. (Except the things that have been mentioned already)

Take the water pump off and spin it by hand, or with a drill - you might be able to see any wobble and will definitely feel any play.

That is a good idea.

As i said earlier: Installing the first new fan clutch seemed to have stopped the wabbling.
Shortly after the water pump went bad and instantly after installing the new one it seemed that the wabbling had returned.
So maybe the new water pump was bad right out the box, i dont know. We'll see.

post a pic of radiator to core support,pic shooting down to see gap,that might be a problem being to big of a gap between them. That would bring the radiator closer to the WP.

I'm currently not at the cars location but the radiator fits the car like a glove and as i said there is at least 0.8" (probably 1") space between the fan and the radiator core.
 

davek

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same problem with old WP ? is that why you bought the new one?
 
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