Today i had a very bad day (Broke parts worth 2k)

davek

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when the fan revs up it gos towards the radiator. Make sure you have the right clutch fan. No reason to changed from stock setup. Did you check measure the difference between the old WP and new WP? They the same? And I would cry seeing my radiator like that.
 

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The fan spacer requires a non clutch fan.
Could use any old 4 blade.
I'm still wondering what's up with the studs in the clutch. I've never seen that. Lock washers would have been a good idea.
 
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I'm very depressed and angry at the same time.

I start at the beginning:
When i bought my charger the cooling fan already made contact with the radiator -> noise.
We thought its the fan clutch and i ordered this new one: 1966-1972 B Body fan clutch for model with A/C. Reproduction
AND an nos part. I also bought a new fan (Reproduction 1968-1973 B-Body 18 1/2 7 blade engine cooli...) because the original one was bent out of shape a little.
We then installed the yearone clutch and the new fan which seemed to solve the problem for the moment.
I also ordered a new fan shroud (which was missing) and we installed that aswell.
I also ordered a brand new glen ray radiator but did not install at that time.

Shortly after the water pump went bad and coolant was leaking out at the weephole which also threw off all belts except the water pump belt.
I went ahead and ordered a new gates water pump, gates thermostat, fel-pro gasket & gates v-belts.

A couple days ago we installed the new gates water pump and after that noticed the fan wabbling around a bit such as making contact
with the radiator again when you revved it up.
I though the new yearone fan clutch probably broke already. (Since you hear so many stories of new parts being trash right out the box)

Today we installed the new v-belts, NOS fan clutch (so replaced that again) such as the new glen ray radiator (which i regret A LOT).
What can i say, after we filled the system with rain water and let it run at idle for maybe 10 minutes the fan ran into the radiator core and
water spilled all over the engine bay. New 1,5k radiator (with shipping/tax etc.) destroyed after being in the car for like 30 minutes.
Fan clutch and fan also broke. Made my day.

I wish i would have reinstalled the old radiator to make sure the problem was solved before installing the new one.
Now its to late -.- Have not seen that coming. (That it completely destroyes the radiator core)

So i am the one lucky guy that buys 2 faulty fan clutches or can something else cause this aswell?
The car has this problem since i got it.


PS: At what temperature does the original fan clutch engage? I suspect when it did for the first time, the fan ended up in my radiator core.
 

Michael_

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when the fan revs up it gos towards the radiator. Make sure you have the right clutch fan. No reason to changed from stock setup.

I got this one which should be original

Clutches are also original nos and reproduction clutches. (Despite one is deeper than the other by 0.3-0.4")

Did you check measure the difference between the old WP and new WP? They the same?

No but i will do that.
They look very similar but that does not mean they are.

-----

I see cars that had no fan clutch came with another fan
(18" instead of 18.5" and other bolt pattern to fit the spacer & water pump bolt pattern)
They installed those 18" 7 blade direct drive / solid fans with spacers on superbirds and stuff.
To expensive to buy this stuff "just to see if the problem goes away".

The question is what do i do now?
I will order a new fan since mine is totally bent up and compare the water pump depth (old vs new.)
I will then make sure there is around 1" space between my fan and radiator core.

But what if all this checks out fine but the problem persists?
Can i assume the water pump & pulley is good given the videos in my last post?

If that should be the case, should i throw a hayden fan clutch at it?
Its not THAT expensive...
 
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if it had A/C check pulley alignment. I found a place to recore original radiator but I have A/C. This makes the drive pulley set out closer to radiator. You could mount an idler pulley on block it works I did it on 66 coronet
.
 

Michael_

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davek

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remember fan needs to be half in half out of shroud its doesnt need to be on top of the radiator to work. The fan works with the shroud to cool the radiator. Because I did not have an original radiator I used a flex fan and spacer with my shroud because stock fan was to close and it works fine here in SC.
 

Michael_

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remember fan needs to be half in half out of shroud its doesnt need to be on top of the radiator to work. The fan works with the shroud to cool the radiator. Because I did not have an original radiator I used a flex fan and spacer with my shroud because stock fan was to close and it works fine here in SC.

Well i measured today and i think the clutch delete fan should be just right with that 1.3" spacer. :)
I will make sure the fan is in the correct position.

I really hope that fixes it because what else could it be?
Water pump, water pump pulley or engine mounts is the only stuff that comes to mind.
But it does not really look like it. (I posted videos in an earlier reply)
 

Michael_

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I just noticed that my NOS fan clutch has parts number 2863260 on it.
The reproduction unit i bought 1966-1972 B Body fan clutch for model with A/C. Reproduction (probably from tonys parts)
states "Replaces Chrysler part numbers 2658456, 2863260, and 3462107"

But the nos unit is about 0.3-0.4" deeper than the reproduction unit.
So its not the same physical dimensions!
When this happened i had the nos unit in the car which is deeper.
But its original to the car, right? (1969 Dodge Charger R/T 440 with original engine)

I will later compare the dimensions/depth of the original water pump i removed and the new gates one i installed.
Because except for that aftermarket water pump i had a factory reproduction fan, nos fan clutch and factory reproduction radiator (glan ray) & factory reproduction fan shroud together with the numbers matching engine in the car when this happened.

As far as i can tell the space between radiator core and fan had to be correct except the gates water pump is deeper than the original one or this fan clutch (despite an nos mopar part) isn't the correct one for the car.
But since i also had this problem with the 0.3-0.4" less deep reproduction fan clutch (just not as bad) i think it has to be the water pump being to deep or another fault that has nothing to do with spacing between radiator core and fan.
 

Michael_

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Today i compared the original water pump with the gates one i replaced it with:

Leveled out with coasters
leveled1pdjfq.jpg

leveled2jpk6i.jpg


Not leveled out
notleveled1oskf1.jpg

notleveled2cxj0r.jpg

notleveled33kkpe.jpg


The difference in depth is so minor (0.1-0.2 inch), i'm sure that's not my problem.

I'm not sure if the pump is ok, though.
(I ordered 2 identical pumps, the other one is still in the car.)
 

Michael_

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Nobody said anything to my video:


But after watching a couple other videos on how to diagnose bad motor mounts i start to think they are bad / engine moving to much?
What do you guys think? I do not have other mopars to compare it to unfortunately.

If i need to replace them would this be a good replacement?
 

Wietse

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If i need to replace them would this be a good replacement?

They are better than the stock ones, in your case I would change them to be sure.
To replace those you do not require an engine lift, get a hydraulic trolley jack and lift the engine at the front oil pan flange. (put a piece of wood between that is as long as the oil pan flange section is wide to spread to load)
Before you lift anything remove the 1 long bolt on each side that sits through the K-member mount and engine mount and lift the engine up to get access to pull the rubber mounts out.

Regarding the water pump height comparison, you need to measure the distance from the gasket face (that sits against the pump housing) to the flange face where the fan mounts.
That distance will determine the relative distance from the engine. (if any difference)
From what I've seen with my radiator & fan replacement/installation is that the distance between fan and radiator is the tightest at the bottom because the engine sits under a slight angle and radiator sits vertical. (just to keep in mind not to look at the top section only)
For a state of mind not to burry my fan in the radiator I stayed with a spacer (as the one you were showing previously) combined with a 18" Flex-a-Lite flex fan.
It will be a solid & lightweight construction with no possibilities of wear/wobble apart from the cooling water pump bearing which is supporting all that rotating mass.
Just measure and ensure 100% that the bolts used in a setup like this are of the correct length, if they are too long they will contact the pump housing behind the mounting flange.
If too short the threads could strip out and destroy everything.
 

Michael_

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If the weather is nice i will try to install new engine mounts on saturday.

Problem is the radiator is still broken so i can't run the engine for more than a couple minutes.
But i need to verify the fan isn't making contact with the radiator after replacing the engine mounts to avoid ruining the next radiator.

Is it okay to rev the cold engine a few times to make sure the problem is fixed / fan not contacting the radiator core anymore?

I don't want a blown head gasket or something.
 

Wietse

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What about your old radiator?
After you have changed the motor mounts, you still want to see your fan setup when installed.
 

Michael_

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What about your old radiator?
After you have changed the motor mounts, you still want to see your fan setup when installed.

Its still in the car but loosing coolant because the core is destroyed.
The one that was in the car prior to that is an aftermarket unit that does not even fit the car very well. It's not really a reference.
 

Wietse

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Use the damaged one and keep it filled with water from a garden hose and fire it up.
Rev it a bit and see what happens, you got not much other options I guess.
Once you are confident the setup is ok, have the radiator repaired with a new core.
For sure you will find a good place to do that in Germany, it's the root of good engineering.
 

Lefty71

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Nobody said anything to my video:

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NO WONDER!!! That video is hosted by an Adware/Spamware site....looks like a script, but it's just BS.... Anyway, your motor jumps around like a fish outta water.....certainly looks like bad mounts to me. seems like they are captured, but the rubber is wasted....like all three mounts.
 

Michael_

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NO WONDER!!! That video is hosted by an Adware/Spamware site....looks like a script, but it's just BS....

Well i'm working on a solution.
Almost looks like i will have to sign up on youtube because no other reputable site seems to allow video uploads without account anymore.
I use an adblock plugin and therefore do not see their spam but you're not the first one that told me this so i wont use this site anymore.

Anyway...

your motor jumps around like a fish outta water.....certainly looks like bad mounts to me. seems like they are captured, but the rubber is wasted....like all three mounts.

What do you mean with "all three" mounts? It's just two as far as i know.
I think you mean the transmission mount with the 3rd one?

Well as i pointed out here its not to easy to change those engine mounts

But so far we managed to swap the passenger side engine mount.
This is how the old one looks like: Surprisingly i can't see any damage but i have tried to look them up but can't find anything.
I think those are probably no name china mounts?

image0.jpeg
image1.jpeg
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My guess is the driver side mount is bad.
Unfortunately its everything but easy to get that out. I have not tried yet but i'm not sure its possible without removing the engine.

image7.jpeg
 

Lefty71

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Wietse

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Unfortunately its everything but easy to get that out. I have not tried yet but i'm not sure its possible without removing the engine.
Like i said before, lift the engine with a jack on the oil pan rail as high as you can get it.
With the power steering pump removed it can be taken out fairly easy.
I had to pull mine out a few weeks ago to get the steering box out of the engine bay, the engine mount was the easy part.

Passenger side is the least one to worry, it's the driver side that gets pulled apart.
 

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