747mopar
Well-Known Member
I had a 12 level handy so I just held it vertically resting on the rim lip, basically held plumb but off center where it caught the lips and not the tire.
Trashing front tires... It's getting expensive!!
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747mopar
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Tires were to far gone to drive on plus I'm not going back to the same shop again. They rubbed me the wrong way twice now so it's time to go elsewhere. He always had an excuse and didn't seam to care, bad combination.
I cut 4 pieces of 16 gauge steel in 12" squares. I then took some grease and put between the pieces. Now when I work on suspension stuff I set them under the tires when I set it back on the ground and they slide to where they need to be. This way I can get it really close before taking it to the shop.
mopar 3 B
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Take the tires even to a new shop. Its better they see the problem than trying to explain it.
747mopar
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I like that idea, might give it a try. Thanks
747mopar
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I thought about it but didn't want 2 more tires to deal with getting rid of so they stayed with the tire shop but like I said I took pictures.
BTW how much camber are you running?
747mopar
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I let them set it but I'm glad you asked because my daily driver just went down and I can't get the Charger in until Sunday. I'm going to try and tackle it myself until then, how do I go about it?
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Basically, you made a set of 'turn plates' and that works too. Just make sure they slide easily and do not bind.
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why not just lower them onto dollies?
mopar 3 B
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Would require all 4 corners and a level floor. I find a L square, protector and pointer to be more accurate than using a level.
Small square 12x6 tape the protector to it. Install pointer at zero long enough to read angle. I remove the wheel bearing dust cover and set the square on the machined hub.
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Such a pisser.
When these cars are lowered and have big tires, there is not much room to work without lifting it up to let the tires droop a little. An experienced tech, one with experience with these cars, should know what effect a hanging suspension has on the camber and caster.
Example: If the car has to be lifted to gain access to the upper control arm cams, he should know that raising it (with the tires hanging) will add X amount of caster, X of caster. A setting can be made with that in mind, then rechecked with the car back on its own weight. Toe can be set easily with the car at any height.
Most of my experience is with A-Body cars but the suspension and steering is the same. If you lift the car up, the "track" of the front wheels narrows. "Track" is the width across both front tires. Some magazines measured it from center to center. As the front suspension extends, it gets narrower as the control arms move away from the resting position. Once you lower the car back onto the tires, there is usually a sort of "bind" in the suspension that results in some positive camber and toe in until you move the car back and forth a little bit.
In the late 90s I was making a home movie with car stunts, wrecks and off road bashing. I used a 73 Duster, a 74 Dart Sport, a 75 Dart 4 door and a 76 Dart. I bent lots of control arms, damaged K members and shredded some bushings. Sometimes the K member is damaged where the lower control arm shaft is mounted. In stock form, it is not too beefy and the welds can break. I've seen neglected, high mileage cars with NO remaining strut rod bushings, egged out LCA mounts in the K member and LCA bushings shredded. Some of the damage is not immediately evident and requires a teardown to find.
A few years ago I had my Charger on jackstands to look at a few things and saw that my 12,000 mile LCA bushings were coming apart. I like to think that during the front end rebuild in 2003 that I was smart enough to tighten the LCA shaft nut with the car on the tires but I can't be sure. I may have tightened it with the tires hanging.
I have never worn tires that bad, that fast. Something is wrong, especially if the camber appears normal.
My specs for my alignment:
Camber: .75 Degree NEGative
Caster: 4.5 Degrees POSitive
Toe: 1/8" toe IN.
When these cars are lowered and have big tires, there is not much room to work without lifting it up to let the tires droop a little. An experienced tech, one with experience with these cars, should know what effect a hanging suspension has on the camber and caster.
Example: If the car has to be lifted to gain access to the upper control arm cams, he should know that raising it (with the tires hanging) will add X amount of caster, X of caster. A setting can be made with that in mind, then rechecked with the car back on its own weight. Toe can be set easily with the car at any height.
Most of my experience is with A-Body cars but the suspension and steering is the same. If you lift the car up, the "track" of the front wheels narrows. "Track" is the width across both front tires. Some magazines measured it from center to center. As the front suspension extends, it gets narrower as the control arms move away from the resting position. Once you lower the car back onto the tires, there is usually a sort of "bind" in the suspension that results in some positive camber and toe in until you move the car back and forth a little bit.
In the late 90s I was making a home movie with car stunts, wrecks and off road bashing. I used a 73 Duster, a 74 Dart Sport, a 75 Dart 4 door and a 76 Dart. I bent lots of control arms, damaged K members and shredded some bushings. Sometimes the K member is damaged where the lower control arm shaft is mounted. In stock form, it is not too beefy and the welds can break. I've seen neglected, high mileage cars with NO remaining strut rod bushings, egged out LCA mounts in the K member and LCA bushings shredded. Some of the damage is not immediately evident and requires a teardown to find.
A few years ago I had my Charger on jackstands to look at a few things and saw that my 12,000 mile LCA bushings were coming apart. I like to think that during the front end rebuild in 2003 that I was smart enough to tighten the LCA shaft nut with the car on the tires but I can't be sure. I may have tightened it with the tires hanging.
I have never worn tires that bad, that fast. Something is wrong, especially if the camber appears normal.
My specs for my alignment:
Camber: .75 Degree NEGative
Caster: 4.5 Degrees POSitive
Toe: 1/8" toe IN.
747mopar
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info Kern Dog. I'm pretty sure I torqued my LCA bushings while hanging but then again I used Poly bushings where they aren't bonded so it shouldn't be an issue? I checked mine more accurately last night, I used to equal length shims to get my 4' level outside of the fenders. The left tire is tilted in 7/16 on top and the right is tilted in 5/16, this is reading across a 19" span (rims are 18s).
Getting aggregated because my work hours don't allow any time for me to get it for an alignment. I scheduled it for Sat but my boy has Soccer so.... Think I'll call my dad and have him take it in today, I'd love for him to take it out but worry too.. been a long time since he's driven a standard or dealt with a normally aspirated car but I'm confident he'll get it.
747mopar
Well-Known Member
Finally got it in but don't have the specs
. I asked for a print out but his machine wasn't hooked up to anything for printing but he said your more than welcome to take a picture, pulled my phone out and it was dead
. I could have asked for paper but after talking to him and watching him work I have zero concerns, he takes pride in his work and it showed... car feels a lot better and it already drove very well.
He pointed out to me that the paint hadn't even been chipped on the rear UCA eccentics so he's questioning whether the guy even touched them? Watching the screen everything was well within specs when he was done but he would have liked a little more adjustment in the caster for my driving habits. Basically he said my tire wear issue is resolved but if I'm not happy with the handling he'll look into offset bushings to gain more adjustability.
Long story short, it was the alignment shop that's been trashing my tires!
. I asked for a print out but his machine wasn't hooked up to anything for printing but he said your more than welcome to take a picture, pulled my phone out and it was dead. I could have asked for paper but after talking to him and watching him work I have zero concerns, he takes pride in his work and it showed... car feels a lot better and it already drove very well.He pointed out to me that the paint hadn't even been chipped on the rear UCA eccentics so he's questioning whether the guy even touched them? Watching the screen everything was well within specs when he was done but he would have liked a little more adjustment in the caster for my driving habits
. Basically he said my tire wear issue is resolved but if I'm not happy with the handling he'll look into offset bushings to gain more adjustability.Long story short, it was the alignment shop that's been trashing my tires!
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747mopar
Well-Known Member
Forgot to mention he owns a 55 Chevy, loves classic cars and does race car setups as well. Also.. he spent nearly 2 hours on it vs the other shop taking 30 minutes! Granted some of it was dealing with customers but still.
mopar 3 B
Well-Known Member
You will advertise for this shop won't you. Lip service is the best or worst advertising one can get.
It one thing to make a customer happy it another to be able to say I did that a be proud of it.
It one thing to make a customer happy it another to be able to say I did that a be proud of it.
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