Someotherguy
Well-Known Member
We do not know what all you have replaced with aftermarket...what is new on the ignition...?
Turn the key and nothing happens..... HELP
- Thread starter 74Runneer
- Start date
I'm trying to figure out what ignition components he's using. I swapped my '69 Bee over to the MP electronic ignition that included the orange box ECU, harness, 4 prong ballast resistor, and updated dizzy. The only problem I had was getting the correct wires hooked up at the ballast resistor. Though the car started fine and was driveable, it continued to fall on its face like the timing was jacked. I tripled check the wires and thought they were fine. My good friend looked at it once and found out I had the wrong wires connected. Changed the connections and the car was a BULL.
But I agree, put the old ignition stuff back on, we know that works, and see what happens. Then we need to troubeshoot the new ignition and perhaps get a new orange box while we're at it. Won't go to waste.
But I agree, put the old ignition stuff back on, we know that works, and see what happens. Then we need to troubeshoot the new ignition and perhaps get a new orange box while we're at it. Won't go to waste.
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Someotherguy
Well-Known Member
ok i went to the other thread he had....He has the HRR688D system from---> http://4secondsflat.com/Ignition.html
the ecu/coil/ and distributor are aftermarket....
You must swap ALL BACK TO STOCK....none of that kit will work in conjunction with the stock ECU....
the ecu/coil/ and distributor are aftermarket....
You must swap ALL BACK TO STOCK....none of that kit will work in conjunction with the stock ECU....
74Runneer
Well-Known Member
Go to 4secondsflat.com and look at their small block mopar ignition set up. I got the package with the ecu, coil and distributor. Its gives you all the specs way better than I could explain ha. But I think I have a 3 year warrenty on it so I should be good.
Okay I hate to tell you guys but I have to leave for the weekend. Ill be back on monday. This is going to drive me nuts over the weekend!!!
Okay I hate to tell you guys but I have to leave for the weekend. Ill be back on monday. This is going to drive me nuts over the weekend!!!
Someotherguy
Well-Known Member
ahh crap :sad5:
oh well, we will try again monday i guess :blob1:
oh well, we will try again monday i guess :blob1:
64SF
Well-Known Member
This is one of the best threads I've read on this forum. I've laughed my a** off and learned a few things. A new stickie category should be created for this one. Can't wait for Mondays episode!!!!
I swear to god, we are going to get this car running even if I have to fly up to MN myself and help!!!
- - - Updated - - -
Did you follow these instructions for checking if everything was working ok? I'm curious how the self-diagnostics checked out on the ECU....
http://4secondsflat.com/HRR688 Specs.htm
- - - Updated - - -
Did you follow these instructions for checking if everything was working ok? I'm curious how the self-diagnostics checked out on the ECU....
http://4secondsflat.com/HRR688 Specs.htm
Someotherguy
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^^^^^lmao!!!
Gpuller
Well-Known Member
Ok I've been trying to keep up here but I have a question. Why is he changing back to the stock ignition? Its got fire and fuel, (by the fire balls shooting out the carb) to me it looks like the dist is 180 off. Did he pull the dist and put the rotor in the correct position? Maybe I missed that? Still no start?
Maybe I'll have to take the 1-1/2 hour drive up there to help. It will save 440beep and someotherguy the plane fare...I'll take donations for gas money. ha ha ha
Maybe I'll have to take the 1-1/2 hour drive up there to help. It will save 440beep and someotherguy the plane fare...I'll take donations for gas money. ha ha ha
Someotherguy
Well-Known Member
He has had the rotor in both positions, still no start, i suspect the plug wires may be mismatched also..My main reason for going back to the stock system is because we KNOW it works...this new ignition system has never actually ran the engine yet, so i personally do not trust it at this point, especially with the main ignition wire shorting out and all...once the car is running on a known good ignition system, then he can go back and put the aftermarket one on...it's only the ecu box, distributor, and coil...15 minutes to replace with the stock stuff...
Gpuller
Well-Known Member
I see...must have missed where the rotor was in the correct position and still no start.
Thanks for the clarification.
OK, first off....I am not trying to stand on anyone’s toes here by posting this information. I realise that a lot of the following information has already been posted by two very helpful members, as well as other contributors at various times. The problem here is that we have some vital pieces of the puzzle scattered amongst the pages – which are growing longer every day. We have a young guy who is new to cars, and he is keen to learn – all of which is great for our ‘hobby’. It is also a bonus that he is messing around with a car that has 8 spark-plugs. So let us do our best to encourage him, and more importantly, get his car running - or as they say in the south – “Git ‘er done!!”
I have been talking with my very good (I can’t say best for fear of upsetting a couple of others
) mechanic friend and fellow MoPar enthusiast, who is the owner of the ’65 Belvedere Convertible I posted pics of a couple of weeks ago. Having looked over the thread, and various bit of information, I have decided we need a structured breakdown to trouble-shoot this car. I also hope that others (including myself) will benefit in the future from these simple tips.
1. First of all, familiarise yourself with this handy drawing of the engine layout (posted recently by “someotherguy”)
2. Disconnect the battery
3. Remove No. 1 spark-plug
4. Slowly rotate the engine clockwise (looking from radiator) using a socket and ratchet
5. Place a finger over No. 1 spark-plug hole
6. When pressure builds up behind finger – STOP
7. Now insert a reasonable length screwdriver or something similar into No. 1 spark-plug hole
8. Continue slowly rotating engine clockwise while watching screwdriver. When screwdriver reaches peak of height out of the cylinder – STOP
9. Take a look at the crankshaft pulley and timing marks
10. Hopefully.....you should be within sight of alignment of TDC (Top Dead Centre) of the timing marks
11. NOW – check rotor inside the distributor
12. Make sure rotor is correctly seated on the shaft
13. Carefully place the cap on the distributor and see which socket on the cap lines up with the contact on the rotor
14. THIS is No. 1 cylinder.
15. MARK this socket on the cap so it is clearly visible
16. Remove the No. 1 spark-plug lead from the cap
17. Make sure it is put in this “NEW” position on the cap
18. Remove all other spark-plug leads from cap
18a. ***Remove screwdriver from No. 1 spark-plug hole and replace spark-plug and lead.
19. Using the following FIRING ORDER sequence, place the remaining spark-plug leads in a CLOCKWISE rotation around the cap – ONE by ONE.
Firing order – small block MoPar ==} 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
20. When all the leads are in place – you are ready to fire the engine.
21. A small amount of adjustment will be necessary, however, the engine should be close enough to get it running for now.
All of this should be fine IF the ignition wiring is correct and in good order. Looking at a couple of photos on page 8, I suspect there are a few items to tidy up. Ballast resistor by-passed will be fine for the purposes of getting the engine running. However, long-term it needs to be in place for several good reasons.
:3gears:
I have been talking with my very good (I can’t say best for fear of upsetting a couple of others
) mechanic friend and fellow MoPar enthusiast, who is the owner of the ’65 Belvedere Convertible I posted pics of a couple of weeks ago. Having looked over the thread, and various bit of information, I have decided we need a structured breakdown to trouble-shoot this car. I also hope that others (including myself) will benefit in the future from these simple tips.1. First of all, familiarise yourself with this handy drawing of the engine layout (posted recently by “someotherguy”)
2. Disconnect the battery
3. Remove No. 1 spark-plug
4. Slowly rotate the engine clockwise (looking from radiator) using a socket and ratchet
5. Place a finger over No. 1 spark-plug hole
6. When pressure builds up behind finger – STOP
7. Now insert a reasonable length screwdriver or something similar into No. 1 spark-plug hole
8. Continue slowly rotating engine clockwise while watching screwdriver. When screwdriver reaches peak of height out of the cylinder – STOP
9. Take a look at the crankshaft pulley and timing marks
10. Hopefully.....you should be within sight of alignment of TDC (Top Dead Centre) of the timing marks
11. NOW – check rotor inside the distributor
12. Make sure rotor is correctly seated on the shaft
13. Carefully place the cap on the distributor and see which socket on the cap lines up with the contact on the rotor
14. THIS is No. 1 cylinder.
15. MARK this socket on the cap so it is clearly visible
16. Remove the No. 1 spark-plug lead from the cap
17. Make sure it is put in this “NEW” position on the cap
18. Remove all other spark-plug leads from cap
18a. ***Remove screwdriver from No. 1 spark-plug hole and replace spark-plug and lead.
19. Using the following FIRING ORDER sequence, place the remaining spark-plug leads in a CLOCKWISE rotation around the cap – ONE by ONE.
Firing order – small block MoPar ==} 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
20. When all the leads are in place – you are ready to fire the engine.
21. A small amount of adjustment will be necessary, however, the engine should be close enough to get it running for now.
All of this should be fine IF the ignition wiring is correct and in good order. Looking at a couple of photos on page 8, I suspect there are a few items to tidy up. Ballast resistor by-passed will be fine for the purposes of getting the engine running. However, long-term it needs to be in place for several good reasons.
:3gears:
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Just been thinking about stage 13 and 14 above....if the rotor falls between two positions on the cap, the distributor can be rotated to line up with one of them. It doesn't matter which one....as long as the one it aligns with is made to be No. 1 cylinder.
Remember - the distributor can be rotated to any position, as long as the distributor shaft remains locked inside the drive off the camshaft, and the spark-plug leads are positioned accordingly.
The other thing I have not mentioned above, is that for any ECU module, the contact gap on the magnetic pickup needs to be ideally set at 0.008" (between 0.006" - 0.010" is acceptable) Contacts must be parallel, and clean, and only adjusted with a brass or plastic feeler gauge - NOT steel gauges.
Remember - the distributor can be rotated to any position, as long as the distributor shaft remains locked inside the drive off the camshaft, and the spark-plug leads are positioned accordingly.
The other thing I have not mentioned above, is that for any ECU module, the contact gap on the magnetic pickup needs to be ideally set at 0.008" (between 0.006" - 0.010" is acceptable) Contacts must be parallel, and clean, and only adjusted with a brass or plastic feeler gauge - NOT steel gauges.
superbeedave
Well-Known Member
I started reading this post an hour ago and it's amazed me with all of the information you guy's have given him and we still do not have ignition! I know we all have been the same place this young man is at now. His timing is out because of the backfire. And starting from scratch to get this thing back in time with with #1 piston at top dead center and rotor towards #1 on cap and vacuum advance towards approx. 9:00 pos. and timing mark on balancer @ "O" this should only take an hour maybe. I'm just looking for a happy ending soon! I agree with the op. that questioned going back to original ignition when we had spark and fuel! Just not at the correct time! A bad ecu would not had sent any spark at all!
74Runneer
Well-Known Member
Okay im back. Ill start to work on the Roadrunner tomorrow morning. So what did we conclude about my ignition? Should I swap to my original? What should i do first for tomorrow?
Im rested up and eager to start workin!
Im rested up and eager to start workin!
We need to figure out where the rotor is when the #1 cylinder is top dead center, and perhaps the distributor wires need to be moved. Back when I switched from the old points distributor to the MP electronic ignition, I had to move the #1 wire on the distributor 3 spots when compared to where it was on the old points distributor. So I wonder, we keep assuming the #1 wire on the new distributor is in the same spot as it was on the old distributor, which could be wrong. Like I said earlier, we have air, fuel, and spark, its just being timed wrong.
Leave the current ignition as is, but follow the earlier posts about getting the #1 cylinder to top dead center. Then look and see where the blue rotor (I think the new rotor is blue) is pointing, and that's where the #1 wire goes on the distributor cap. It maybe in a completely different spot than the old distributor.
Did you follow the diagnostics check for the new ignition to make sure everything was hooked up correctly?
Leave the current ignition as is, but follow the earlier posts about getting the #1 cylinder to top dead center. Then look and see where the blue rotor (I think the new rotor is blue) is pointing, and that's where the #1 wire goes on the distributor cap. It maybe in a completely different spot than the old distributor.
Did you follow the diagnostics check for the new ignition to make sure everything was hooked up correctly?
Have a good read of posts #194 and 195 above. I have been doing exactly that on a car today....and it goes hard now
74Runneer
Well-Known Member
Ill do the diognostic test tomorrow. Okay looks like I have my work cut out for me. Thanks!
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