Which Carters/Manual Cross Ram?

[RayHemi]

I am trying set up an intake system for a 65' Satellite 440 cross ram 4 speed-manual car. That car may eventually get overdrive. Now I am building out from the intake. I have a couple of old Edelbrocks, some Holleys and a recently purchased Carter. With carburetors, I want whatever I do to match-up left to right. Carter's considered more respectable with regard to authentication but my manifold is already an aftermarket adaptation. In fact, my 440 wasn't available for this car when the car was manufactured either. The Holleys and Edelbrocks don't specify for automatic or manual transmissions but the Carters do. Is that specification strictly for authentic restorative purposes? Or is there an ultimate impact to performance in a manual car if a Carter originally specified for use with an automatic is used? Some AVS versions with numbers that vary appear identical. Finding matches seems difficult for Carter.

 

[lewtot184]

if it were me i'd just do a couple of 1405's and not get lost in the automatic/manual thing. the 1405's have the same throttle bores and venturi as the original 3447's. a 1407 has the same throttle bores and venturi as a 3705 '64 cross ram carb.

 

[33 IMP]

I have some 3705s for my crossram, but the choke stuff is missing, and I had. a problem with one of them. (Quite a while ago, don't remember which or what). Im sure a good carb shop can fix em. I used a pair of 750 competition carters for my 727 car. Ordered with no choke.
The edelbrocks will work, but be aware there might need to be mods to the linkage. The Eddie's linkage points are different than the carters, and adjustment can be a problem. The original carters had a mounting point 1 1/2" from cl of primary throttle shaft. (I've heard that) Eddie's don't.
Holleys require a spacer under the carbs, or trimmed throttle linkage. May not be a problem with a stick.

 

[ruffcut]

I'm using Edelbrock 750's on a 500 inch stroker.
Note: As other implied, you have to modify the lower portion of the linkage.
Dvorak, down in Florida did sell correct linkage at one point.
I have seen reworked Edelbrocks for sale also, but it escapes me where at this moment.
I have had very good luck with these carbs.
Hope this helps. ruffcut

 

[RayHemi]

if it were me i'd just do a couple of 1405's and not get lost in the automatic/manual thing. the 1405's have the same throttle bores and venturi as the original 3447's. a 1407 has the same throttle bores and venturi as a 3705 '64 cross ram carb.

Thanks lewtot184.
We'll, going that way it seems the 1405 would be the closest CFM to what I might need. However I already have at least two 1407s. With these, I wouldn't be swapping in throttles like I might with the Holleys. 1400 CFM is alot to handle with all four wheels still on the ground. So if going with something otherwise, why not Carter? Two of the Holleys are 600 CFM each. I bored the venturis, and got annular discharge boosters for one, all options you get with modular carburetors. Now with Carters you have to start with most of what you'll need.

 

[RayHemi]

I have some 3705s for my crossram, but the choke stuff is missing, and I had. a problem with one of them. (Quite a while ago, don't remember which or what). Im sure a good carb shop can fix em. I used a pair of 750 competition carters for my 727 car. Ordered with no choke.
The edelbrocks will work, but be aware there might need to be mods to the linkage. The Eddie's linkage points are different than the carters, and adjustment can be a problem. The original carters had a mounting point 1 1/2" from cl of primary throttle shaft. (I've heard that) Eddie's don't.
Holleys require a spacer under the carbs, or trimmed throttle linkage. May not be a problem with a stick.

Thanks 33 IMP.
Yeah I would like to start from scratch but need a good "scratch" and as I mentioned I need them matching in appearance and function. Do you know anyone using an automatic Carter in a manual car. If it looks good enough, I'll put up with a stiff temper.

 

[RayHemi]

I'm using Edelbrock 750's on a 500 inch stroker.
Note: As other implied, you have to modify the lower portion of the linkage.
Dvorak, down in Florida did sell correct linkage at one point.
I have seen reworked Edelbrocks for sale also, but it escapes me where at this moment.
I have had very good luck with these carbs.
Hope this helps. ruffcut

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View attachment 1477434

Thanks ruffcut.
I haven't run my engine. In fact I haven't even built it yet. It's from a mobile home. I don't intend to stroke it so I expect it to have strong performance yet live at the same time. But I know a cross ram kinda sets a high bar. From what I've learned about Carters your good luck with them is typical. For now I'll keep heading in this direction. I still need a good excuse not to use a Carter automatic.

 

[EARLY B]

What is the difference between manual and automatic with the carters or edelbrocks???

 

[33 IMP]

What is the difference between manual and automatic with the carters or edelbrocks???

Possibly jetting, probably linkage for a kickdown. Running an auto carb on a stick should be no problem. Jetting change for correct tune? You should do that anyway.

 

[RayHemi]

What is the difference between manual and automatic with the carters or edelbrocks???

Right!
Since no one is exactly giving these things away I feel I need to find out. Vacuum ports for transmission governors and distributor advances, linkage points and setups. In some cases there should be more differences than in others based on the date of manufacture alone. What happens if you cap and omit or modify these? For an example, what goes on between shifts? A full stop with a lopey cam is something you'll want to know you've addressed.

Edelbrock was all about manifolds. It would be natural for them to spread out into carburetors if only they could. Well, they could. They did. And Edelbrock is a Carter derivative. Why so? Because Carter is a stout design, nuff said.

I should first know why they're different. I'm just not sure how to find out. I thought I had the SA book. As soon as I post I'll shop one.

 

[ruffcut]

One thing you need to do with the crossram intake, is get the carbs balanced from side to side.
A device is used to measure air flow and adjust the carbs so they are flowing equally. ruffcut

 

[RayHemi]

One thing you need to do with the crossram intake, is get the carbs balanced from side to side.
A device is used to measure air flow and adjust the carbs so they are flowing equally. ruffcut

Is it the same sync. gauge that's used for Webers? No two cylinder banks are the same so it makes all too much sense you would use something like this.

 

[RayHemi]

I made offers for 2 Carters. I also ordered 2 books. Dave Emanuel is pretty in depth in his other books so I have the Carter Super Tuning as well as the Carter Edelbrock, both done by him, on their way. These books are scarce. I needed several attempts to get them coming.

 

[EARLY B]

Possibly jetting, probably linkage for a kickdown. Running an auto carb on a stick should be no problem. Jetting change for correct tune? You should do that anyway.

The bell crank is the same for both has a provision for either auto or manual. The throttle cable bracket is different, the auto has a guide for kick down rod the manual doesent. As far as jetting ect this will be specific to the engine specs.

 

[RayHemi]

The bell crank is the same for both has a provision for either auto or manual. The throttle cable bracket is different, the auto has a guide for kick down rod the manual doesent. As far as jetting ect this will be specific to the

Thanks EARLY B

There is a Max Wedge 426 engine for sale on eBay listed as rebuilt. It has two Holleys. It has what appear to be the correct style air cleaners too. Since I intend to avoid a hood scoop I don't know that something like that would work. Especially because 33 IMP pointed out that the Holleys required a spacer or trimmed throttle linkage. As it is, I'll have to remove hood bracing to make the cross ram work without a scoop. Holleys would introduce a 'whole-nother' can of worms I'm sure. That engine that is for sale claims a video dyno test with 400 hp. and 500 lbs.ft. @ 5800 rpm. Dynos differ but I'd have disappointment in a 900 lds., twin carbed, cross rammed big block engine sitting on a dynamometer @ 400 hp. at well over 5000 rpm. I actually saw one being dynoed on youtube with really nothing more than some lift and headers that was showning 500 hp. and 530 lbs. well before 5400. Nevertheless, I'm shooting for durability too.

This morning I ended up with three Carter carburetors. The AVS 4734s won't likely be used and will go to another build or be sold. The other two are each AVS 4638s. All three are for automatic cars. A&A Transmissions has promised to sell me linkage at the kit price when they get it. Meanwhile I'm going to inspect my 440-cu inch mobile home engine (which I haven't even touched since I got it). Then I'll tear it down and locate a machine shop. The one I've been using no longer does block work. After that, I'll get back to my interior and body. I'm discussing the interior in one of this websites new sections.

 

[RayHemi]

Possibly jetting, probably linkage for a kickdown. Running an auto carb on a stick should be no problem. Jetting change for correct tune? You should do that anyway.

Check my response to EARLY B. Now, I wait.

 

[33 IMP]

My 62 has a scoop, but it wasn't necessary to run the crossram. I did NOT have to trim any of the underhood bracing either . I was NOT running the max aircleaners however, probably makes a difference.
As I understand it, the 63 hi comp aluminum front-end cars used a scoop, the low comp cars got a steel front with no scoop.

 

[RayHemi]

My 62 has a scoop, but it wasn't necessary to run the crossram. I did NOT have to trim any of the underhood bracing either . I was NOT running the max aircleaners however, probably makes a difference.
As I understand it, the 63 hi comp aluminum front-end cars used a scoop, the low comp cars got a steel front with no scoop.

Well I'm never going to know for sure until I get it in there. People on this forum have shown me theirs. The bracing is removed and they're wearing air cleaners.

Here's one example:

This car should be exactly the same. Is it an RB?

Yes, 440 looking like a 413.

This Polara is essentially the same. Yours and EARLY B's comments after seeing these examples encouraged me to get those Carters.

 

[RayHemi]

Got one book on Carters and two carburetors. A family illness suddenly came to my attention so I'm probably leaving town. I'll look at these things sometime soon, hopefully.

 

[dvw]

I've run 1407's on a crossram street build for a friend. It's been together about 15 years. 5 speed manual with a 3.55. Theyre jetted out of the old Direct Connection book. Had to solder up jet to redrill and make the small size one. gets about 14 mph on the highway. Drives great.
Doug