Well, I've had enough of this 440 Mystery Motor

[Ski 61701]

If you do elect to change your lifters, I would get a new set before measuring for preload. This is just in case the lifter cup is of a different design and potentially could wind up back at square one. I like the lifters with the edm hole in the face for additional oiling. Not sure if your current ones have that. Regardless they still need to be checked out disassembled prior installation.

 

[miller]

IF you've already pulled the tappets out, but did NOT keep track of which cam lobe they were on...it's highly recommended you replace them anyway.
Any rate, again, they could easily still be okay, but need to be looked at.

 

[dvw]

The OP has a stock rocker assembly with a possible milled head. He has measured the pushrods that are obeing used and they appear to be a bit long.

Would .100 be too much? How far down does the lifter cup travel before bottoming out?

When the lifter pumps up at that preload, how far is that sending the valve?

The lifter does not pump up to extra length unless there is excess travel in the valve train. The cavity below the lifter piston fills with oil to take up clearance but no more. If the pushrods are to long the valve will not shut. Compression will be lost. Valve lash does tighten with heat. It is possible that the lifter piston is very close to the bottom of the travel. That's why as a quick and dirty way to check, the shafts can be shimmed up. There is only one or two flat tappet lifter manufacturers still producing parts. I doubt sereriously if the wrong lifters are in the motor. Only AMC and Chrysler use a .904 diameter.
Doug

 

[dvw]

Sorry double post

 

[moparedtn]

If you do elect to change your lifters, I would get a new set before measuring for preload. This is just in case the lifter cup is of a different design and potentially could wind up back at square one. I like the lifters with the edm hole in the face for additional oiling. Not sure if your current ones have that. Regardless they still need to be checked out disassembled prior installation.

These Comp Cams ones DO have the little hole in them; I just verified that.
Further, the Comp Cams pushrods I have now (apparently too long) also have the passage in them as well.
The stock rockers don't have corresponding holes in them, of course.
I thought Mopars didn't do "through the pushrod" oiling?
Is it bad that I have these on mine?

 

[dvw]

If the Comp cams lifters are set up for AMC they will feed the pushrods. If the pushrods are hollow they will feed the rockers as well as the factory shaft feed.
Doug

 

[moparedtn]

IF you've already pulled the tappets out, but did NOT keep track of which cam lobe they were on...it's highly recommended you replace them anyway.
Any rate, again, they could easily still be okay, but need to be looked at.

Nope, not yet.
Yep, that's what I'm thinking - replacing them.
With something....

 

[moparedtn]

If the Comp cams lifters are set up for AMC they will feed the pushrods. If the pushrods are hollow they will feed the rockers as well as the factory shaft feed.
Doug

Oh yeah, plenty of oil getting up top for real.
Too much maybe?

 

[Ski 61701]

You need to take a lifter apart, even though you have a "hole" in the pushrod cup, you might have a metal disc directly under it which blocks the oil from coming up into the pushrod. From a mfg stand point nowadays its easier to make one part fits all, and tweek little things if need be. The last set of comp lifters "solid" you could see a hole, it wasnt until I took them apart I had a metal disc under it. I had a couple of ancient solid lifters not sure on the brand, and the pushrod cup was solid.

 

[moparedtn]

Interesting how the different manufacturers make these lifters.
Examples:

This is the Comp Hi-Energy. No holes in side of it.

This is the Mopar Performance one. Note the difference in the ring around it as opposed to the Comps' 2 rings? Smaller across, too. No hole in plunger, least that I can see.

This is the Summit one. Again, differences in the "rings".
In fact, not only are the rings different in how wide they are but where they are.

This is the Comp ones I have now (822-16). Looks identical to the other Comp.
Could be they're using stock photos (not necessarily representative exactly) on the Summit website.
This one definitely has the hole in the plunger.

The Howards' lifters and the Lunati are both strikingly different from all these. Their ring is much larger and looks to be cut deeper as well.

A fella can get confused all to heck looking at this stuff.

 

[moparedtn]

The Sealed Power "Vintage" is pretty much identical to the Mopar one. Hole in ring, no hole in plunger.

The Crower "Cam Saver" lifter. Supposed to supply extra oiling to cam lobes.

Look at the "ring" on the Howard's lifters! What's that all about?

Isky. It has the hole in the piston and in the tall ring, too.

Lunati's seem well made to me. Tall ring, hole in side and in piston.

Lunati Micro-Trol. Extra ring.

Man, there's a ton of different designs, isn't there?
Sad to say, the Mopar one doesn't look particularly well made in comparison, least to me.

 

[miller]

Looks like a crap shoot to me...
Sign of the times, no other reason. Never have figured out why, if a design has worked for so many years, they change it? Ahh...new and improved...or cheaper. Off soap box.
That Crower cam saver tappet has a small oiling feed hole at the center of the lobe face, or contact face.
I've got the standard type tappets that Crower offers, on my Crower cam. But, not run yet, since I want to change the push rods. Got my own demons!

Yeah, the push rod oiling type tappet is for AMC. Can't say if it hurts anything or not, even if running solid push rods like our motors normally use. If it works, okay, and gets the job done.

One thing, for you, do a search on how an hydraulic lifter works. Easier to deal with if you understand what your looking at. Think of a hydraulic lifter like a shock absorber...one for each valve.

 

[moparedtn]

Looks like a crap shoot to me...
Sign of the times, no other reason. Never have figured out why, if a design has worked for so many years, they change it? Ahh...new and improved...or cheaper. Off soap box.
That Crower cam saver tappet has a small oiling feed hole at the center of the lobe face, or contact face.
I've got the standard type tappets that Crower offers, on my Crower cam. But, not run yet, since I want to change the push rods. Got my own demons!

Yeah, the push rod oiling type tappet is for AMC. Can't say if it hurts anything or not, even if running solid push rods like our motors normally use. If it works, okay, and gets the job done.

One thing, for you, do a search on how an hydraulic lifter works. Easier to deal with if you understand what your looking at. Think of a hydraulic lifter like a shock absorber...one for each valve.

Yeah, I've got the basic concept of how they work - which makes all these different designs all the more confusing as to why they exist?

Am I understanding you correctly on the Crower Cam Savers? They have a hole in the bottom?
EDIT: Nope, I'm wrong. According to Crowers' literature:
"Cam Saver: .0025 Groove from the oil band to the lifter face for reduced
lobe wear"
The dang things have a groove cut down their side!

EDIT AGAIN: Looks like this is what you're referring to:
"Coolface: The CROWER Coolface option sends oil to the lifter face
for reduced lobe wear"
That rascal is a tiny hole in the bottom of the lifter!

 

[khryslerkid]

That rascal is a tiny hole in the bottom of the lifter!

Pictures...

 

[moparedtn]

Pictures...

Lazy thing.
Fine, here ya go:

It appears it's only available on their mechanical flat tappet lifters.
The grooved deal is available on hydraulic flats.

 

[khryslerkid]

Lazy thing.
Fine, here ya go:
View attachment 390631

It appears it's only available on their mechanical flat tappet lifters.
The grooved deal is available on hydraulic flats.

Lol, I thought that's what you are useing. Beg my pardon your hinyness!

I never heard of them before. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Stick with what Ma Mopar wanted.

 

[Garys1969RR]

That to me looks like a pretty good idea, to have extra oiling going directly onto the cam lobe and lifter face. I would think that may help to prevent lobe failure, of which there seems to be alot of going on lately.

 

[moparedtn]

Y'all are about to talk me into putting the top end back together again and trying it...

 

[Garys1969RR]

If your bottom end is in good condition, I would carefully re assemble the top end, paying close attention to detail. I haven't read the entire thread, but are your heads off now? Are the cam and lifters in good shape? Is the oil clean? Pay close attention to lifter pre load. I think they may be pre loaded too much, or bottoming, causing the lifter to pump up and hold the valves open at certain times. That would certainly cause it to miss and run rough. Just my theory. Also make sure your distributor and ign system are in good working order. My son had a bad ignition box for awhile, and the 383 ran terrible, sometimes wouldn't start, it had lost spark. Now it runs 12s with nitrous! And it fires up as soon as it cranks over. How far do you have the engine apart now? Try and find out what's wrong. Don't put it back together without fixing the problem. A big block in good condition, and properly tuned, will fire up in short order, or as soon as you hit the starter. Remember, "If nothing changes, nothing changes." Good luck!

 

[miller]

Ha! Mixed bag stuff. Probably have my numbers wrong, but think I saw Rhodes lifters, for 'only' $200-400?

Anyway, let's get back to basics...how's that intake bolt line-up? Yeah I know...heavy. But, without gasket, which way are the manifold bolt holes, to the head holes...in, or out?
There is a chart around for the cut on intake, to keep up with cuts on the heads. Or, if in a pinch, oblong the intakes holes.

Hydraulic lifters...just keep in mind, all said and done, you don't want the tappet cup being able to make contact with the retainer ring, or clip. That's the whole idea behind pre-load, besides all-time positive contact with the push rod.