'69 440 Upgrade combo...your thoughts?

[69 R/T]

I decided to deviate from stock by upgrading to the following parts. I'd like your input on this combo. The car is a 69 R/T with a Ramcharger hood (hood clearance) 440 Magnum with 4 speed trans and 3.54 gears. The engine pulls about 160-165 psi cranking cylinder pressure with stock 906 heads and Speed Pro flat top 9.3:1 pistons. My intent is to retain stock appearance.
QF 750 CFM mechanical secondary carb
Edelbrock CH4B intake (hood clearance issues)
440 Source Stealth heads
Pertronix Igniter II w/ Flamethrower coil
Comp Cams Nostalgia Purple Plus cam Duration 239 in. 246 ex. @.050 Lift .484 LSA 108
I haven't heard any reports on this new updated version of the old MP grind.

 

[wyrmrider]

If you are pulling the engine down for a valve job cc the heads and what gasket and measure piston to top of deck and let's find true compression
new valve springs?
which pp are you looking at
Take a look at the XL series also
some cams with less seat timing that the smallest purple plus lobe 6882 XM is comp HL and K is ENGLE @ Engle is @.008 comp .006 I adjusted their place in seat duration order by 4 degrees
1.6 1.5 lobe dur@ .050 .200
XM 5964 .560 .525 .350 275@ 231 149


K-58HYD .549" .514" .343" 276° 230° 148°

PP 6882 .506” '474” .316” 280@ 233 148
XM 5962 570 534 356 279@ 235 153
KV-2HYD .573" .537" .358" 278° 230° 144°

what that means is that eventhough the engle advertised is 276 and the PP 280 they are close to
the same seat duration- note the lift difference which would give more area under the curve to the Engle note the same duration at .200 lift- where the power is made
Obviously the 5962 is a "Bigger" cam than the PP even with one degree less advertised


That smaller cam- well anytime I can get 5 degrees less seat timing means I can open up the LCA a couple of degrees and still get the same intake close point- or other "adjustments"
close the intake two degrees earlier- etc
I think they have it in a "shelf" grind

I'd take a look at Bullet also (ultradyne has none)
they have a LOT of Mopar grinds

 

[69 R/T]

If you are pulling the engine down for a valve job cc the heads and what gasket and measure piston to top of deck and let's find true compression
new valve springs?
which pp are you looking at
Take a look at the XL series also
some cams with less seat timing that the smallest purple plus lobe 6882 XM is comp HL and K is ENGLE @ Engle is @.008 comp .006 I adjusted their place in seat duration order by 4 degrees
1.6 1.5 lobe dur@ .050 .200
XM 5964 .560 .525 .350 275@ 231 149


K-58HYD .549" .514" .343" 276° 230° 148°

PP 6882 .506” '474” .316” 280@ 233 148
XM 5962 570 534 356 279@ 235 153
KV-2HYD .573" .537" .358" 278° 230° 144°

what that means is that eventhough the engle advertised is 276 and the PP 280 they are close to
the same seat duration- note the lift difference which would give more area under the curve to the Engle note the same duration at .200 lift- where the power is made
Obviously the 5962 is a "Bigger" cam than the PP even with one degree less advertised


That smaller cam- well anytime I can get 5 degrees less seat timing means I can open up the LCA a couple of degrees and still get the same intake close point- or other "adjustments"
close the intake two degrees earlier- etc
I think they have it in a "shelf" grind

I'd take a look at Bullet also (ultradyne has none)
they have a LOT of Mopar grinds

The heads are new, out of the box Stealth. The Felpro head gaskets squeeze to .039, and the cam is Comp PP284H. Thanks for the info!

 

[wyrmrider]

pp 284 should work if you have a real 9.5 iron- 10:1 aluminum 3:54 gears (are these heads aluminum)?
I'd cc my heads and measure compression height first
if you have 9 or less think about the XE275HL which was the top one on the above list
108 lca and 15 degrees more duration than a Magnum cam you are going to have a hot rod
if you have not bought cam think about a 3 bolt or loctite is your friend

 

[69 R/T]

pp 284 should work if you have a real 9.5 iron- 10:1 aluminum 3:54 gears (are these heads aluminum)?
I'd cc my heads and measure compression height first
if you have 9 or less think about the XE275HL which was the top one on the above list
108 lca and 15 degrees more duration than a Magnum cam you are going to have a hot rod
if you have not bought cam think about a 3 bolt or loctite is your friend

Yes, Aluminum heads. The springs are recommended not to exceed .510, lift which is why I stayed away from too much lift . I already bought all this stuff, but haven't installed the cam or heads yet.

 

[wyrmrider]

well measure anyway so you know where you're at
that cam may be ground with 4 degrees advance built in
depending on your true compression you can waltz it around a couple of degrees
can you get good gas where you are?

 

[69 R/T]

well measure anyway so you know where you're at
that cam may be ground with 4 degrees advance built in
depending on your true compression you can waltz it around a couple of degrees
can you get good gas where you are?

I run 91 octane pump gas, it runs fine with 13 degrees of static timing topping out at 37, and about 50 with vacuum advance. Great throttle response and no pinging. I'm currently running the factory stock HP cam.

 

[BSB67]

What cam do you have now, true factory cam?
What is the exhaust system?
What rockers will you be using?
Would you consider a solid cam?
What is your overall goal for the car?

That Comp PP is a lot bigger cam than you have now. A lot.

Always nice to get actual compression ratio before you commit to the cam.

 

[69 R/T]

What cam do you have now, true factory cam?
What is the exhaust system?
What rockers will you be using?
Would you consider a solid cam?
What is your overall goal for the car?

That Comp PP is a lot bigger cam than you have now. A lot.

Always nice to get actual compression ratio before you commit to the cam.

Everything is matching numbers bone stock. I will keep the factory 2.5 inch exhaust and manifolds. I was going to use stock stamped rockers, but considering Crane ductile iron rockers....antiquated, but I like them. The car sees little driving, but I just want a fun, wicked sounding street car. I may put in 4.10's too.

 

[wyrmrider]

Agree
In the above list I did not include his cam I included the PP280 not the pp284
1.5 lobe .050 .200
PP 6884 .517 .485 .323 284@ 239 154
PP284H replaces 484 Purple
good question on the headers
he has a stick so if he likes the drive-ability of a 284..
lots of articles on the 284 those that love it tend to be 3.91 geared
can't say anything more without knowing true compression
question though- do those heads have the short mopar spark plugs and spark plug location or a more modern combustion chamber with say .750 reach plugs

good question about rockers
the 280 cam with 1.6 rockers would be under 5.10
glad you caught the spring limitation- many don't

 

[wyrmrider]

nothing wrong with the Isky/ crane DC ductile iron rockers
give rocker arm rebuilders a call- look up their new name evidently in Redding now
they can fix you up with bronz bushed and hard chrome shafts
but at half inch lift- even 550 the stock rockers will work
go read that 10
year old andyF article a couple of more times
I like how they did the exhaust
are you going to pull the heads and check stem to guide, concentric etc what stem seal do they use?
the center two on mopars get hot

 

[69 R/T]

nothing wrong with the Isky/ crane DC ductile iron rockers
give rocker arm rebuilders a call- look up their new name evidently in Redding now
they can fix you up with bronz bushed and hard chrome shafts
but at half inch lift- even 550 the stock rockers will work
go read that 10
year old andyF article a couple of more times
I like how they did the exhaust
are you going to pull the heads and check stem to guide, concentric etc what stem seal do they use?
the center two on mopars get hot

nothing wrong with the Isky/ crane DC ductile iron rockers
give rocker arm rebuilders a call- look up their new name evidently in Redding now
they can fix you up with bronz bushed and hard chrome shafts
but at half inch lift- even 550 the stock rockers will work
go read that 10
year old andyF article a couple of more times
I like how they did the exhaust
are you going to pull the heads and check stem to guide, concentric etc what stem seal do they use?
the center two on mopars get hot

The heads are new, uninstalled units. I don't remember a lot about the head specs. Both of my buddies run them with issue. Since they're aluminum, the plugs are long reach. 440 Source Stealth heads are what I bought.

 

[69 R/T]

What I meant to say was my friends run the 440 stealth heads without issue. That Comp Cam PP284 regrind of the old Mopar Performance cam is supposed to have a faster rate of lift with a 30-year technological improvement over the old grind, but I can't find anybody who is running it to give me any information about it.

 

[lewtot184]

I decided to deviate from stock by upgrading to the following parts. I'd like your input on this combo. The car is a 69 R/T with a Ramcharger hood (hood clearance) 440 Magnum with 4 speed trans and 3.54 gears. The engine pulls about 160-165 psi cranking cylinder pressure with stock 906 heads and Speed Pro flat top 9.3:1 pistons. My intent is to retain stock appearance.
QF 750 CFM mechanical secondary carb
Edelbrock CH4B intake (hood clearance issues)
440 Source Stealth heads
Pertronix Igniter II w/ Flamethrower coil
Comp Cams Nostalgia Purple Plus cam Duration 239 in. 246 ex. @.050 Lift .484 LSA 108
I haven't heard any reports on this new updated version of the old MP grind.

I wouldn't use that cam, unless your tuning abilities are up to snuff.

 

[Challenger340]

We've used LOTS of Stealth Heads on customer builds, we've even broke 500hp with them on a resto "appearance" .030" over 440 using factory hp manifolds, 2 things:
1.) They pickup substantial AirFlow gains even just re-working the "as delivered" Seat Prep, which OOTB is nowhere near the advertised Flow
and
2.) never seen a Stealth chamber at less than 82 cc's OOTB.

 

[69 R/T]

We've used LOTS of Stealth Heads on customer builds, we've even broke 500hp with them on a resto "appearance" .030" over 440 using factory hp manifolds, 2 things:
1.) They pickup substantial AirFlow gains even just re-working the "as delivered" Seat Prep, which OOTB is nowhere near the advertised Flow
and
2.) never seen a Stealth chamber at less than 82 cc's OOTB.

What do you recommend I do with them? I figured for the price, it was not that much more to improve with bigger ports and valves over stock heads with a valve job and spring/retainer change.

 

[wyrmrider]

I think what he is saying is that a simple DIY bowl blend makes a difference - right Challenger?
what to do
cc the heads and check the compression height
measure twice cut once theory
glad they have modern plugs- indicate they may have a more modern chamber
I do not know anyone running that cam but the old purple shafts could be improved so I'm glad comp did
I think Crane "computer smoothed" them years ago also
but as someone else said that is a much bigger cam
but with 4.10's go for it IDK about 3.23
ANYONE running 3.23s , stock ex manifolds and 484 purple shaft?
I'm waiting for compression
cheers

 

[69 R/T]

I think what he is saying is that a simple DIY bowl blend makes a difference - right Challenger?
what to do
cc the heads and check the compression height
measure twice cut once theory
glad they have modern plugs- indicate they may have a more modern chamber
I do not know anyone running that cam but the old purple shafts could be improved so I'm glad comp did
I think Crane "computer smoothed" them years ago also
but as someone else said that is a much bigger cam
but with 4.10's go for it IDK about 3.23
ANYONE running 3.23s , stock ex manifolds and 484 purple shaft?
I'm waiting for compression
cheers

Back in the 80's in my 67 R/T I ran the original MP 284/484 cam with an auto trans and 3.23's and really high cylinder pressure (TRW 10.5 on 915 closed chamber heads) and it ran like crap! I even advanced the cam 4 degrees...not much improvement.

I think the original design may have been good for the track, but it didn't work well for me on the street. I hear others praise that cam. I think with Comp's new way of modernizing the original design, changing the ramps, and splitting the duration, it will be a whole new story. Since I'm running a manual trans and 3.54's, it may really wake up the car...I know it'll sound bitchin' too! I should run those heads to a shop and get them checked before I paint and install them, don't ya think? I appreciate your advice, by the way!

 

[BSB67]

Either 284 will be a poor choice with manifolds. If all you care about is sound, go for it.

 

[lewtot184]

that comp cam has the potential to be 1/2 step worse than the mopar cam when using manifolds.