What can be done with this 440 on the cheap?

[rumblefish360]

Check the length of the transmission itself vs. a stock automobile unit. I think someone mentioned that because of a possible length difference in the trans itself. The driveshaft can always be cut down and reused elsewhere. Perhaps sell it and roll the monies over into your wallet. That makes the whole deal get cheaper!

 

[wyrmrider]

good points rumblefish
of course we need the head flows to spec a cam so getting ahead of the game here also need weight and gears and how he wants to drive it
I'm not trying for mileage- that's a byproduct
I'm trying to get the intake closed early while still having a large duration at .200 to get the cylinder filled and retaining that charge
The road runner cam started out for high compression motors and was retained as smog cam does not work well for either today
With a short seat duration profile you can squeeze the lca and still not have a lot of overlap
agree on headers first
manifold and carb last
I'd like to see a cam with Intake Closed at .050 less than 30 degrees
some places to start
Hughes SEH0610BL13 473 intake lift 206@.050 goes under .050 by 32 ABDC I don't see any seat timing from Huges and do not see any reason to have a higher lift ex
but think about it with the 113 LCA squeezed down would get the Intake closing before 30 ABDC
for example
Hughes EH1016BL uses 112LCA the duration is up 4 degrees the Intake Closing goes under .050 at 34 instead of 32 - that's basically the ratio- no free lunch
The smaller of the Summits 6400 also gets it closing by 34 but only .444 lift same as edelbrock performer plus 214-224
the sae duration 288/298 compared with the stock 440 284/293 SAE (.004)
Comp 356 54
Comp XE262H 57ABDC @.006 31 ABCD @.050 this cam gives about a 6.8:1 Dynamic compression in a motorhome 440
Comp 268H 60 ABDC 110lca
as you can see it's really easy to loose 6 degrees of intake valve close and not much lift/flow

 

[Paul_G]

I have seen IQ52 threads on a low compression 440 build. They can make some power. Very much what I am after. I just hope the bottom end is good. Pulled a valve cover and looked like new inside. Oil on the dipstick was clean even. Only has 54000 miles on it.

 

[Paul_G]

What it is going in....

4000# 72 Charger. I am going to keep the 3.91 gears and the 46RH trans. The OD trans works well with the gears. I have a neutral balanced lock up converter in the 2400 stahl range. So the cam would need to play niceley with OD and lock up, low rpm on the highway, yet still give good performance at WOT.

It is a street car, would be nice if I could stop losing the stop light stomp to 6 cyl Mustnags! Mustnag GT or Hemi challengers, and I have to tuck tail and crawl away.

 

[wyrmrider]

On the 73 Magnum cam- will it work on a low compression motor- of course Ma Mopar sold lots of them 74-78
but they run hot and not much torque
so when we raced 74-78 and had to keep the low compression we ran really low gears, loose converter and reved the snot out of them
no low end- what you'd have to do today to make one work- with 3.23 or taller gears they are dogs- so depends on how you want to drive it
agree with rumble
"A short duration camshaft and as much lift as possible would be good to make some nice torque down low."
agree on the heads but unless you are looking for a pro street wanna be do not consider high flow at high lifts
On your Motorhome Heads check and see if they have the additional cooling holes on each side of the sparkplugs and in the block
if so these would have the premium motorhome valves (price them and see)- so these heads are worth some money
what does everyone think for headers 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 or step-- long tubes?

 

[Paul_G]

Ill dig that cam out one day this week and post the cam card.

 

[wyrmrider]

Damn 3:91 and OD best of both worlds I've run 4:11 and 3.54 with OD and sub 3:1 with OD with flathead nash in Mobilegas Economy run in a Rambler
here are the Crane Blueprint spces for the Magnum cam (not "our" improved version of)
lift duration&? duration @.050 note that the intake goes past .050 at 39 ABDC however like the stock 440 cam this one is really really long on the seats - they can wear a lot and still not make any noise...
447/464 272/292 214/226 115lca -5 39 51 -5 @.050
449/464 292/309 SAE 214/225@.050 115lca SEaled Power KC-661 gives you the seat timing
Comps "improved" Magnum cam
268AH-10 .464 .309 268@.006 222@.050 110 lca MAGNUM CAM comp 21-305-4 60 ABDC (this is with the LCA squeezed down to 110)
270H .470 .313 270@.006 224@.050 110lca close 61ABDC
observation- Comp Magnumlarger at .050 looks like it closes intake later but seat timing may actually be shorter than factory Magnum (magnum is SO LAZY)

 

[Mark B]

The 46RH on your 360 won't bolt to a big block. You will have to either go with an old school 3 speed 727 or buy some type of adapter so you can use your existing OD trans.

 

[Paul_G]

The 46RH on your 360 won't bolt to a big block. You will have to either go with an old school 3 speed 727 or buy some type of adapter so you can use your existing OD trans.

Ultra bell bell housing. The small block bell gets cut off and the big block bell bolts in with the pump bolts.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Some how cheap has been forgotten again.

 

[rumblefish360]

Ultra bell bell housing. The small block bell gets cut off and the big block bell bolts in with the pump bolts.

How much is the bell housing and who does this kind of work? What is the cost?

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Keep it stock until it goes south. No reason to put good parts in it, they'll cost you the same as great parts later on down the road. If you want power, just add boost with a Paxton Super Charger kit or similar. Drive it around with good motor oil (amsoil) and a good tune. Biggest upgrade for you right now would be a torque converter, a 2,800-3,500 stall-speed to get it closer to its torque peak.

 

[Paul_G]

How much is the bell housing and who does this kind of work? What is the cost?

They have been just under $400. Who does this kind of work? Hot rodders like us.

 

[wyrmrider]

as we

 

[Paul_G]

Pulled the plugs and put a camera in the holes. Can see cross hatch, some of the valves, and carbon on top of the pistons. Some pistons had little to no carbon, some had more, the pics show the worst ones. How does it look?

 

[Paul_G]

The plugs all looked identical. Carboned up, Autolite 84's.

 

[Paul_G]

On the 73 Magnum cam- will it work on a low compression motor- of course Ma Mopar sold lots of them 74-78
but they run hot and not much torque
so when we raced 74-78 and had to keep the low compression we ran really low gears, loose converter and reved the snot out of them
no low end-

Is what your saying is.... dont bother with that Magnum cam?

 

[wyrmrider]

REad through what I posted anything not clear post back
you want magnum + lift but not the long clearance ramps and you want to get the intake closed early
you're not running open headers so long exhaust is not helpful
want some theory
440 Mopar is a long rod motor
most tech guys ares SBC or SBF short rod trained
long rod has much more dwell around TDC - which makes overlap worse than the same overlap in a SBC or even a BBC
short rod jerks the piston down quicker
long rod slower and the maximum piston speed is at the point where the rod is tangent to the crank- which is enough later in a long rod engine to make a difference.
short rod motor and small lifter combination means that they have to start the intake open earlier to catch the earlier movement of the piston
long rod gives you more time (crank degrees)
problem with opening the intake earlier is that if the valve is open too much when the piston is not moving around TDC then it is hard to get velocity through the too large valve "curtain" - uh flat spots till the revs come up.
I mentioned trying to maintain velocity on valve closing to get as much charge in as possible and keeping the velocity up by squeezing the valve closing- same idea the other way on intake opening- opening too fast and too early not only hurts getting the intake flow going it has to be considered along with overlap.
So- do not take to much advice from the cam tech guys- there are some on this board that have been around the MOPAR block a few times
and to answer your question I would not use a magnum cam in a low compression motor or a vehicle with a tall final drive ratio
when I step on the gas I want something to happen
Do you have OD already?

 

[HT413]

Ebay turbo.

I seriously thought about that route. If I could’ve done the fab myself, you’re see on in my car right now.

 

[Paul_G]

REad through what I posted anything not clear post back
Do you have OD already?

I appreciate the in depth cam specs. I am learning it. But really it blows me away. That cam I have is a comp XE256H-10 part 21-221-4. If it works for this engine great, my lucky day, if not no big deal. I understand what you are saying about the cam but need help with the cypher. http://www.compcams.com/(S(4zffrf2i...mpany/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=705&sb=0

The overdrive trans has been in the car for several years now and works great. Thats why I plan to keep it.