383 stroker vs 440 stock rebuild

[diesel_lv]

I believe that's a fair assessment. It's true with any performance enhancement. At our local pub I heard a conversation about bashing Ford's modular engine after increasing it's supercharger performance. That it comes apart after only 20 runs? They asked me as the old fart. I said. "What did you think would happen when you increased boost from its designed 8 lbs to 14?" Changing fuel only protects from immediate destruction. You made no upgrade to bottom end. You didn't even add upgraded head studs. You just added a chip to change fuel map to accommodate the increase in boost. Of course it's going to come apart. ALOT faster!"

And I have a 4.6 4 valve mod motor out of a Lincoln MK VIII. Rebuilt w all forged and 8.5:1 w a blowthru turbo in my jetboat pushing 14lbs n 600 hp. Again, gotta upgrade.

 

[Cojohnso1]

And I have a 4.6 4 valve mod motor out of a Lincoln MK VIII. Rebuilt w all forged and 8.5:1 w a blowthru turbo in my jetboat pushing 14lbs n 600 hp. Again, gotta upgrade.

Lol. That is the exact motor that was discussed. It's a nice Ford small block. But in Ford's infinite wisdom? Stopped. Like the 427 so many years ago. It's why I just don't get their thinking?

 

[RockyPat]

Thanks everyone for their votes and messages! Great information in these posts as always. From what I have read, 496 stroker is the #1 option, but it could be not as durable as a stock rebuild, 440 is the #2 option as it is a great motor that can get good power without a stroker and more durable, 438 stroker seems like the odd man out with nothing standing out about it.

I think I could make a 496 scream! I will be on the lookout for 440s on the classifieds until I make up my mind.

 

[Cojohnso1]

Thanks everyone for their votes and messages! Great information in these posts as always. From what I have read, 496 stroker is the #1 option, but it could be not as durable as a stock rebuild, 440 is the #2 option as it is a great motor that can get good power without a stroker and more durable, 438 stroker seems like the odd man out with nothing standing out about it.

I think I could make a 496 scream! I will be on the lookout for 440s on the classifieds until I make up my mind.

496 is a well documented stroker build that certainly is not a bad road. It's hard to argue and compete against more cubes. Plus you can build to lower compression to accommodate pump gas options while keeping pretty spooky performance. If there was a magic build to satisfy all applications and driver requirements? That information has escaped my experience?

 

[RockyPat]

496 is a well documented stroker build that certainly is not a bad road. It's hard to argue and compete against more cubes. Plus you can build to lower compression to accommodate pump gas options while keeping pretty spooky performance. If there was a magic build to satisfy all applications and driver requirements? That information has ecaped my experience?

Thanks for your input. You are not wrong about it being impossible for a build to satisfy all requirements.

 

[sam dupont]

RockyPat,
The thing the 438 has going, according to 440 Source, is it revs like a 383. Is that a benefit when a street motor is going to make all of its torque by 4,000 rpm? How does a 451 compare to a 496 in power? I assume that a balanced BB of any configuration is going to rev easily.
For me, I don't need two motors. The 440 would sell easily, the 383, not so much. So, if I'm going to stroke one and sell the extra, the 383 stroker makes more sense for keeping space in the garage.

 

[RockyPat]

RockyPat,
The thing the 438 has going, according to 440 Source, is it revs like a 383. Is that a benefit when a street motor is going to make all of its torque by 4,000 rpm? How does a 451 compare to a 496 in power? I assume that a balanced BB of any configuration is going to rev easily.
For me, I don't need two motors. The 440 would sell easily, the 383, not so much. So, if I'm going to stroke one and sell the extra, the 383 stroker makes more sense for keeping space in the garage.

Hello Sam,

I get what you're saying about the revving. I would think that a 451 probably comes close to a 496 in power, but I am by no means an expert. You make a great point about 440 vs 383 desirability. It would be much harder to sell a 383. I think a 496 would make ample power, and it would have the 4.250 stroke.

 

[MelroseMopar]

Remember There's "No replacement for big displacement.." You would be starting with almost the same Cubes in the 440 as you are getting from the Stroked Motor
Your limits are in the almost 600HP with the stock 440 bottom end so go with that and put the $3000+ your going to have in the 383 and put heads, cam, intake on the 440 = longer life more power..

 

[#41]

Hello All,

For a person who is looking to gain the most bang for their buck, what would be the best option?

I am looking for good street power and tendencies, nothing crazy.

Thanks

Find a good used 440 that someone has pulled, or a good core and have it rebuilt reusing the stock crank and rods. You can make 400+hp with just a cam a few bolt-ons. Lots of fun, easily maintained, reliable and inexpensive.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

RockyPat,
The thing the 438 has going, according to 440 Source, is it revs like a 383. Is that a benefit when a street motor is going to make all of its torque by 4,000 rpm? How does a 451 compare to a 496 in power? I assume that a balanced BB of any configuration is going to rev easily.
For me, I don't need two motors. The 440 would sell easily, the 383, not so much. So, if I'm going to stroke one and sell the extra, the 383 stroker makes more sense for keeping space in the garage.

such a great point, you can clearly hear how my 10.5:1 4.250 stroke 400/512 labors to get any rpm from a 2nd gear roll…


https://youtube.com/shorts/toNHhSjbQM8?feature=share

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I’m going to show you two time slips from my roadrunner. First one is a zero deck flat top 440. Second one is the 400/512. Both engines had the same set of heads (Indy SR’s ported by MCH), torque converter, trans, gear, exhaust, rockers, and six pack carbs. The cam is just a touch bigger in the 512. Both six pack intakes were ported. Both engines run on pump 93. Both engines were built by me. The 440 obviously wasn’t a slouch, but the 512 is awesome….

440

512

 

[erickson]

Go with the stroker I have 2. 440 stroked motors now. Love them. The Torque Is Amazing Running 10.4 compression with Eddie heads Just dropped off a 383 to be stroked Friday for my 1970 Road runner convertible

 

[RockyPat]

I can see both sides of the argument. Makes it very tough to choose between two awesome engine builds! I guess it is a good problem to have...

 

[RockyPat]

I’m going to show you two time slips from my roadrunner. First one is a zero deck flat top 440. Second one is the 400/512. Both engines had the same set of heads (Indy SR’s ported by MCH), torque converter, trans, gear, exhaust, rockers, and six pack carbs. The cam is just a touch bigger in the 512. Both six pack intakes were ported. Both engines run on pump 93. Both engines were built by me. The 440 obviously wasn’t a slouch, but the 512 is awesome….

440
View attachment 1150216

512
View attachment 1150215

View attachment 1150217

Thanks for posting this information. That 512 is one angry engine! 440 definitely was no slouch.

 

[451Mopar]

If using stock heads, and mostly stock 440 parts, then the 440 could be built for less money.
The higher quality parts of the stroker (stronger crank, rods, 7/16"rodbolts, and lighter forged pistons) will support more power than the stock rods, 3/8" rodbolts, and cast pistons. Also the stroker kit comes with a slightly thinner 1/16" top and second ring. The Total Seal rings and bearing in the stroker kit are more performance and expensive than stock rebuilder quality parts.
So if looking for performance bang-for-the-buck would be a stroker.
If cost is the primary concern a stockish rebuild can be done less expensive, but the total cost difference will depend on how much work it costs to recondition all the old parts. Worn out cylinder heads are costly if replacing valves, guides, seats (hardened exhausts), springs, retainers, machine work for dual springs, and such..

 

[RockyPat]

If using stock heads, and mostly stock 440 parts, then the 440 could be built for less money.
The higher quality parts of the stroker (stronger crank, rods, 7/16"rodbolts, and lighter forged pistons) will support more power than the stock rods, 3/8" rodbolts, and cast pistons. Also the stroker kit comes with a slightly thinner 1/16" top and second ring. The Total Seal rings and bearing in the stroker kit are more performance and expensive than stock rebuilder quality parts.
So if looking for performance bang-for-the-buck would be a stroker.
If cost is the primary concern a stockish rebuild can be done less expensive, but the total cost difference will depend on how much work it costs to recondition all the old parts. Worn out cylinder heads are costly if replacing valves, guides, seats (hardened exhausts), springs, retainers, machine work for dual springs, and such..

I agree with what you have said. Budget is a concern, but I am also the do it once - do it right type of person. Having a stroker would mean basically all new parts and they are probably (maybe?) stronger than original 50 year old parts.

 

[451Mopar]

If the 440 was rebuilt with equal quality/priced pistons, rings, and bearings, then the cost difference is the rods and crank.
The aftermarket rods are $500 with the ARP 8740 bolts and $600 with the arp 2000 bolts. To add new arp bolts to the stock rods and resize them (plus have the press pin pistons installed) could cost $200 to reuse 50 year old rods, so difference in cost of rods is really about $300.
The aftermarket stroker crank is $750 (or 900 for the lightweight version). Regrinding the stock crank might be $100, but the undersized bearings might be harder to get and can be more expensive. Anyhow, the difference in cost using the new crank and rods is about $1,000 ($950 in this scenario)

The stroker kit gives the added displacement, stronger rods with floating pins and easy to find 2.200" rod bearings, and pistons that are almost 1/2 the weight of the stock pistons. This makes the entire engine capable of supporting more power and RPM than stock.

The cons are that you will have to check all the parts and make sure all the clearance are correct. Then file-fit the piston rings and do some minor clearancing of the oil pickup boss for stroker clearance. Windage tray selection may be more difficult too.

Also, if the 440 is a cast crank / external balance engine, then the internally balanced forged crank stroker is the best option.

 

[RockyPat]

If the 440 was rebuilt with equal quality/priced pistons, rings, and bearings, then the cost difference is the rods and crank.
The aftermarket rods are $500 with the ARP 8740 bolts and $600 with the arp 2000 bolts. To add new arp bolts to the stock rods and resize them (plus have the press pin pistons installed) could cost $200 to reuse 50 year old rods, so difference in cost of rods is really about $300.
The aftermarket stroker crank is $750 (or 900 for the lightweight version). Regrinding the stock crank might be $100, but the undersized bearings might be harder to get and can be more expensive. Anyhow, the difference in cost using the new crank and rods is about $1,000 ($950 in this scenario)

The stroker kit gives the added displacement, stronger rods with floating pins and easy to find 2.200" rod bearings, and pistons that are almost 1/2 the weight of the stock pistons. This makes the entire engine capable of supporting more power and RPM than stock.

The cons are that you will have to check all the parts and make sure all the clearance are correct. Then file-fit the piston rings and do some minor clearancing of the oil pickup boss for stroker clearance. Windage tray selection may be more difficult too.

Also, if the 440 is a cast crank / external balance engine, then the internally balanced forged crank stroker is the best option.

Awesome information! Thanks for laying out the cost differences and the pros and cons of each choice. This is very helpful for me and I am sure it will be helpful for many others on this forum!

In reality, the stroker kit ends up being around $1300 ish more than a stock rebuild. This cost comes with the benefits of more cubes and new parts. Very enticing nonetheless.

 

[nativefx]

Are all year 440's good candidates for rebuilding/stroking? What about those that came out of an RV? Near me is a 1975 440 long block with 452 heads. Says it came in a project car he bought but never heard it run. turns over by hand. I've got a 383 in my 68 charger now, but anticipating it may need a rebuild so my question of which direction to go is the same as the OP. Either way may look at going fuel injection at some point but trying to finish another project car first.

 

[MelroseMopar]

Are all year 440's good candidates for rebuilding/stroking? What about those that came out of an RV? Near me is a 1975 440 long block with 452 heads. Says it came in a project car he bought but never heard it run. turns over by hand. I've got a 383 in my 68 charger now, but anticipating it may need a rebuild so my question of which direction to go is the same as the OP. Either way may look at going fuel injection at some point but trying to finish another project car first.

I could try typing it out but your best bet is to just read this article..
The fast answer is YES! http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm