Suggestions for stock clutch

[koosh]

493 stroker, with A833 4 speed. Currently has dual diaphragm clutch, and pedal too hard for my knee. I assume a factory stock clutch, pressure plate, flywheel would be more comfortable pedal? Not gonna race it, not gonna beat it! Just looking to cruise…
Suggestions on a clutch assembly easy on the pedal?

 

[Cranky]

How bout converting to a juice operated clutch?

 

[ckessel]

Stock style clutch, Borg and Beck 3 finger, is going to have a higher pedal effort than the diaphragm. Diaphragm is the softest effort of the three styles of pressure plate. Then you need one with enough plate pressure to hold the torque of your engine plus a disc to match. Use Cranky's suggestion.

 

[R413]

You can remove the linkage and the torque shaft then clean and lube the bearings inside. Inspect and clean the bearings and balls inside, make sure nothing is bad in there.

Take the linkage off the pedal and make sure pedal moves free, there are bushings or bearings where it pivots under the dash

Maybe there is no grease of lots of dirt where the pilot bearing slides on the front collar?
All of these things will make the pedal stiffer no matter what pressure plate you have.

Also move the seat forward so your leg is not so straight when clutch is in all the way.

Lastly do some stretching and leg exercises to strengthen your leg and knee. Try it for a month and see if you move any better and get stronger. If you work on this over the winter for several months you would be surprised the improvement that can come from it. Many people are too strong in the quads and not enough strength in glutes and hamstrings. Also the hip and ankle joints greatly affect the knee operation. I was like that and knee was not happy and it let me know about it. Way better now.

On the other hand many folks have abused the body for years and there is no hope. But don't just go there first thing. Get off the couch and try something new and different.

 

[koosh]

How bout converting to a juice operated clutch?

Not a fan of those, but thank you

 

[koosh]

You can remove the linkage and the torque shaft then clean and lube the bearings inside. Inspect and clean the bearings and balls inside, make sure nothing is bad in there.

Take the linkage off the pedal and make sure pedal moves free, there are bushings or bearings where it pivots under the dash

Maybe there is no grease of lots of dirt where the pilot bearing slides on the front collar?
All of these things will make the pedal stiffer no matter what pressure plate you have.

Also move the seat forward so your leg is not so straight when clutch is in all the way.

Lastly do some stretching and leg exercises to strengthen your leg and knee. Try it for a month and see if you move any better and get stronger. If you work on this over the winter for several months you would be surprised the improvement that can come from it. Many people are too strong in the quads and not enough strength in glutes and hamstrings. Also the hip and ankle joints greatly affect the knee operation. I was like that and knee was not happy and it let me know about it. Way better now.

On the other hand many folks have abused the body for years and there is no hope. But don't just go there first thing. Get off the couch and try something new and different.

I appreciate the wealth of suggestions. First- presently every thing is new, including the underside of the car. There is no dirt involved, and lubricated properly.
Second, about the excersizing, my 70 year old knees were replaced a couple years ago and do not work as good as the originals in their prime.
Thirdly, seat is all the way back as i am not short, and legs are still bent.
Thanks for the input.

 

[koosh]

Stock style clutch, Borg and Beck 3 finger, is going to have a higher pedal effort than the diaphragm. Diaphragm is the softest effort of the three styles of pressure plate. Then you need one with enough plate pressure to hold the torque of your engine plus a disc to match. Use Cranky's suggestion.

Local very experienced mechanic says a dual diaphragm is tuffer to press down than a new STOCK clutch?

 

[Cranky]

Do you know how much torque is this engine producing? If you like pushing down on the loud pedal, a stock clutch might not hold especially if you are in 4th gear. All I can say, is give it a try. The only clutch I had in a fast car was a racing puck disc. This was over 40 years ago and iirc, it didn't take much pedal effort. This car was launched at 6k and shifted at 68-6900. 440 for the power...

 

[R413]

I appreciate the wealth of suggestions. First- presently every thing is new, including the underside of the car. There is no dirt involved, and lubricated properly.
Second, about the excersizing, my 70 year old knees were replaced a couple years ago and do not work as good as the originals in their prime.
Thirdly, seat is all the way back as i am not short, and legs are still bent.
Thanks for the input.

The fact that you have new knees is great because the joints should work great now. So why why the statement "they don't work as good as in their prime" The muscles and joints around them need to do their part also. Many PT and doctors don't put much into stretch and exercise like they should for replacement patients. Don't count it out. The muscles make these things work.

 

[AR67GTX]

Usually the dual disc clutches like the McLeod RST are reported to be some of the lightest pedal effort clutches around. I had a 17 Shelby GR350 a few years ago with the factory dual disc clutch and the pedal in it was like driving a 4 cylinder Honda - almost effortless.

 

[toolmanmike]

Not a fan of those, but thank you

Diaphram pressure plate? Has the over center spring been removed under the dash?

 

[Biopack]

Usually the dual disc clutches like the McLeod RST are reported to be some of the lightest pedal effort clutches around. I had a 17 Shelby GR350 a few years ago with the factory dual disc clutch and the pedal in it was like driving a 4 cylinder Honda - almost effortless.

Didn’t the GR350 have a hydraulic clutch? (TO bearing)

 

[RussT Plymouths]

When the stock 11" Borg and Beck broke in my '67, I wanted to try a stock replacement diaphragm clutch for comparison. Directions said to remove the over-center/assist spring under the dash but I left it in-place for the first drive because I wanted first hand experience. What I found was a clutch pedal that almost self-depressed to the floor, giving almost no tactical feel to the ball of my foot. I drove it for a few miles and decided I didn't care for the feel at all, or the worry of the pedal staying down, not good. So, I spent about 10 minutes removing the over-center/assist spring and now I have a comfortable clutch pedal that takes probably 25% less effort to press than the Borg and Beck/with spring. Sorry I don't have actual numbers to back up this claim, but the ball of my left foot doesn't get numb and my hip doesn't quiver at long lights any more.

If you find a pedal that still takes more effort than your joints can handle, and you wish to stay mechanical, it's all about leverage. A small change in pivot points in the linkage may be all it takes. You just need to verify you still get enough air gap to fully release the clutch with the pedal depressed. You might need to remove padding under the carpet to get more pedal movement.

As I get older I think about how I'll be able to continue to enjoy my stick shift hotrods too. Unfortunately the joints in my legs didn't come with zerks so I could inject some high pressure grease.

 

[Bird 426]

Seems like something is wrong. Guess that I can look it up, but what do you mean by dual clutch? Diaphragms are usually easy. A stock clutch would be a Borg/Beck three finger, harder than a Diaphragm. Hydraulic may be the way for you. My knees are okay, but just took my 4-speed out out of the Bird, one 4-speed out of three is enough. I like automatic.

 

[toolmanmike]

Didn’t the GR350 have a hydraulic clutch? (TO bearing)

I'm sure it did.

 

[koosh]

The fact that you have new knees is great because the joints should work great now. So why why the statement "they don't work as good as in their prime" The muscles and joints around them need to do their part also. Many PT and doctors don't put much into stretch and exercise like they should for replacement patients. Don't count it out. The muscles make these things work.

They don’t. Not all replacements work out…

 

[koosh]

When the stock 11" Borg and Beck broke in my '67, I wanted to try a stock replacement diaphragm clutch for comparison. Directions said to remove the over-center/assist spring under the dash but I left it in-place for the first drive because I wanted first hand experience. What I found was a clutch pedal that almost self-depressed to the floor, giving almost no tactical feel to the ball of my foot. I drove it for a few miles and decided I didn't care for the feel at all, or the worry of the pedal staying down, not good. So, I spent about 10 minutes removing the over-center/assist spring and now I have a comfortable clutch pedal that takes probably 25% less effort to press than the Borg and Beck/with spring. Sorry I don't have actual numbers to back up this claim, but the ball of my left foot doesn't get numb and my hip doesn't quiver at long lights any more.

If you find a pedal that still takes more effort than your joints can handle, and you wish to stay mechanical, it's all about leverage. A small change in pivot points in the linkage may be all it takes. You just need to verify you still get enough air gap to fully release the clutch with the pedal depressed. You might need to remove padding under the carpet to get more pedal movement.

As I get older I think about how I'll be able to continue to enjoy my stick shift hotrods too. Unfortunately the joints in my legs didn't come with zerks so I could inject some high pressure grease.

Great info! And thank you!

 

[koosh]

Seems like something is wrong. Guess that I can look it up, but what do you mean by dual clutch? Diaphragms are usually easy. A stock clutch would be a Borg/Beck three finger, harder than a Diaphragm. Hydraulic may be the way for you. My knees are okay, but just took my 4-speed out out of the Bird, one 4-speed out of three is enough. I like automatic.

I haven’t a clue what clutch is in there, but seller said this clutch was installed….
“ It was a cenerforce dual friction diaphragm clutch nothing too radical but I think they are stiff for clamping force.”

 

[R413]

They don’t. Not all replacements work out…

I understand, but what's not working is the muscles and joints around the knee, not the new knee.

Many joint replacements don't work because the joint the problem to begin with. But the doctors got paid. They don't want to help you fix the real problem, then the customers would know the joint replacement wasn't necessary. This will hurt their future income potential.

"My friend worked on strength and flexibility and now the knee is great". They don't need that interrupting their revenue stream

 

[koosh]

Diaphram pressure plate? Has the over center spring been removed under the dash?

toolmanmike-where is this spring exactly? That im supposed to remove?